Surely the only option for conventional Ukranian forces now is to retreat to Lviv, if not they are going to get slaughtered and that will not help anyone.
I think now its going to be a matter of civilain and guerilla type resistance to keep the pressure on the occupying forces.
This thread alone is intense due to the level of concentrated information and then opinion on such a tough subject.
Do indeed take a break - it’s good advice -stay well.
The translator at the EU (or not sure from sky maybe I was watching) really got emotional translating Zelenskyy’s speech. You could tell he started to cry. It’s a really sad time.
Take a break, detach, it's very heavy. If you want to focus on the positive and help there are many avenues, I believe there is a Ukrainian association in Ireland (AURI), there are also charities and other online groups.
Completely agree
The notion that Putin is stupid and crazy comes from the same school of thought that he has no support in Russia.
He is as you say, cold and calculated.
Ironically, to call him crazy, actually diminishes his responsibility for what hes doing, as it implies hes not in charge of his own faculties.
I pretty explicitly called them stories rather than sides or facts.
Of course both sides have stories which paint them as heroes. I don't expect either side to tell the full story. The stories are interesting though.
Ya some people are deeply worried.
My wife's cousin lives in France and worries about everything. Yesterday she told my wife she would send the kids to us if a war broke out with Russia.
Alot of people need to step back and realize the likelihood of these going further than the Ukraine is fairly small.
The likely scenario is Russia will defeat Ukraine in the short term and occupy it but it will send the whole of Russia to the bread line. We have to watch on unfortunately, there is no divine intervention of peace going to happen.
Looks like the EU have agreed to fast track Ukraine's application. They're not in the EU yet, but the formal process has started.
Well, "we" The West invaded some countries a few years ago. They would probably start with that instead of the recycling, wouldn't you agree?
Could NATO potentially go in and bomb that convoy without the Russians knowing it was NATO
Pass it off as Ukraine planes.
I think NATO is damned if they act and damned if they don't. At what point does NATO get involved on the ground. Now in Ukraine or in a few years when Vlad eyes up another country to takeover.
NATO/EU is pretty much funding Ukraine's defense as it is, a few planes taking out some targets wouldn't be the biggest stretch.
He seems nice
Wibbs, I cannot find it now (New Boards confuses me) but you did a great post on the origins of Ukraine and it's set up in 1920 etc. I think you went on to say that Russians themselves perceive that they 'half own' Ukraine already and that it wasn't really a legitimate 'free state' in their eyes. I did hear before that Ukraine's war of independence very much mirrored the Irish one in terms of the 1917-1921 timeline and provisional government.
It was a good post anyway but can you respost it?
The president and cabinet should scarper to the countryside- I believe they’re already spread out- my point being, if you can’t “topple” the cabinet you can’t install a new government - when will the Russians call “done” on this? When they reach the centre of the capital and storm the government buildings or something else?
This is the European movement and EU finding out how to use it's gearbox finally.
I've always felt the EU needed a war to have its citizens band together. It's interesting to hear Zelenskiyy speak so passionately about joining the EU and how vocal the EU and even citizens have been about 'welcoming these Ukrainians who are one of us' in in their time of need.
Look after yourself. Giving to the red cross appeal might give you a feeling of having helped as much as any of us realistically can.
Wouldn't fancy been in the first yoke.
I mean, does anyone seriously want to place a bet that Putin wouldn't move on Moldova for instance when the time was opportune?
The Moldovan government has made it clear their desire for closer EU ties, and there's already a mini Donbas puppet state there.
Who wants to take the bet that it "definitely won't happen" like we were hearing with Ukraine from certain quarters before the invasion.
World War 3 will start within Twitter 😂
No way. The fact is Ukraine is not part of NATO and populations in the west may want to do all they can to help, but very few would surely support that kind of military intervention given the consequences for them which would be massive.
We are walking a tightrope here between practical assistance and avoiding a western military confrontation with Russia.
The longer this goes on, the more chance that the west/NATO will put in special forces that will 'blend in' with the Ukrainian army. My guess is it's already happening. But bombing that convoy 'secretly' is very difficult as Russia would be able to see the signatures of incoming missiles, planes and drones. If any of those are not 'Ukrainian', then they'll know. The west's best bet now is to basically coordinate Ukraine's response based on western intel.
I think the narrative there going with is that the war was made inevitable by Nato expansion. They say the damage was already done over the last 30 years and this is the result.
Is it true? I don't know. My imaginary degree in international affairs hasn't come through yet. I'm just seeing what stories both sides are telling themselves to paint the other side as the aggressor and themselves as the hero.
They say we're the kind of alliance who would make up stories like WMD in Iraq as a pretext for invading a country. That seems to be true based on how history unfolded.
The stories both sides tell themselves down need to be true.
Joining NATO is a voluntary choice for countries. We now see why many have joined.
WMD in Iraq? That was the Bush and Blair administration, last I checked those administrations aren't in power. There was a huge backlash from many countries, including allies like France and Germany. Sorry but what the **** is this 20 year old false equivalence BS?
Ehh Norway has been in since the very start.
Part of the fallout from being invaded by Germany in 1940 and 4 years of brutal occupation.
Finland couldn't because of their treaty with Soviet Union in 1947/48 arising out of their winter war in 39/40 and continuation war in 41-44.
BTW how many people here realise that Finland fought the two biggest armies Soviet and German in WWII.
Very plucky crowd not to be messed with.
Maybe it is time they started demanding back the areas like Karelia they lost to the Soviets just to get into the Putin spirit of demanding old borders be redrawn.
Chelsea are not noted for their intellectual liberal supporters.
Anything the EU do will just be PR, which they've already given Ukraine.
EU can't accept Ukraine into the EU with contested borders.
So unless Zelenskyy said Crimea is Russian, then the application will sit on the EU desk for decades.
I have so little respect for the 'Nato caused this' point of view. When has Nato seriously f*cked with Russian security or sovereignty since the end of the Cold War? Never. It's Kremlin paranoia and just a deeply held suspicion that has ran through Russian political life for centuries manifesting itself in the mind of one man.
Even the main thing that Putin points to about Nato that sticks in his throat, the independence of Kosovo, isn't about the fact that Kosovo was created and recognised or that it threatens Russian security, it's that Russia wasn't consulted. Russia's 'great power status' was affronted by a new state and that they weren't consulted adequately. Russia has a self-esteem problem, not a Nato problem.
Will Ukraine joining Eu not drive putin mad and make him retilate more or nuke Eu. Hope to god talks can start and something come of them to stop this bloodbath
Where's the guy from yesterday telling me that Micheal Martin and Polish PM saying it should be fast tracked, wasn't speaking for the whole EU???? Micheal Martin doesn't have an individual thought in his brain so whatever he says about Europe, you know he has backup from the EU.
I think you'll find yourself wrong on this front. The EU is kicking into high-gear now, and not before time. The world has changed over the last two weeks and Putin has let the genie out of his lamp. It won't be tomorrow or next month, but Ukraine's membership will indeed be pushed to the front of the queue, and a lot of the accession requirements will be set aside.
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