If being an unaligned country with a large army is no deterrent to Putin's ambitions is it time for ROI to join Nato?
They're not coming for the rest of the country at least. Considering our army, it'd be over in an hour.
Wouldn't joining the NATO jeopardise the respect Ireland gets as a peacekeeping force. Why would anyone want to attack Ireland anyway, in or out of NATO?
As a small country with very low population density, and not much in the way of easily exploitable natural resources, Ireland should not be in the cross-hairs of any rogue states / Bond villains etc, unless of course if Ireland picks a side and starts contributing to a war.
Even if we were to divert massive amount of GDP to defense, there is absolutely no way we can compete with larger players out there. We are smaller than a medium size city of many of the more powerful nations. On the other hand, being non-aligned will help us punch above our weight-class as mediators, facilitating peace deals, (peacefully) advocating for the vulnerable etc.
Just thinking out loud.
How is the UK on our side?
The UK continues to occupy this country. The UK is Ireland's only enemy.
Ireland and and other countries need to join NATO to prevent states like Russia and China from starting a global nuclear war. There is no much value in being one of the few not bombed in the nuclear winter waiting for starvation and radiation poisoning to do the job.
We already "offer" Shannon to NATO members, why would they admit us when they already get what they want from us?
We have nothing to contribute, and the only tangible impact of joining NATO is seeing Irish soldiers shipped off to die. Best of luck lads
Ireland is part of the Nordic Group of the EU's Rapid Reaction Force.
Ireland has a long history as UN peacekeepers and winning the peace can be more difficult than winning the war.
We have good relations with the US and are beside France and the UK.
NATO is unnecessary when we have the UK on our side and UK terrority on the island. If Russia invaded, US (Shannon and politics of the US) and UK would help.
And if anyone else invaded us, it'd probably be the UK so we're fecked in or out of NATO.
I would be in no rush for us to join NATO.
However, the defence capability we sorely lack needs to addressed. I think even the recently released Defence Commission report is now overtaken by Geo-political reality.
We need to accept that option 3 is now the baseline. We are not and never will be capable of going toe to toe with a great power. That should not be our aim however, we must be able to provide control of our airspace and EEZ, to be able to surveil and inderdict interlopers and to present at least a notional defensive capability.
The rush to fighter jets? We certainly need the capability but I'd suggest for that we start with offering one of our European neighbours use of SNN as a western approaches base for air policing. Capability takes time to build and we should do it carefully.
Focus our resources on our Navy and on actual maritime patrol and exclusion capability. The new CASA are a good step in that direction.
We desperately need an airlift capability and we should consider joining either an Aircraft pool such as EATC.
We don't need to rush towards NATO, but certainly we should both improve our capability and integrate more with PESCO.
Neutrality and whether we are or not? Needs to be dealt with head on. Yes we have an important tradition of being militarily non-aligned. But we are a "western" nation on the edge of the EU with a huge amount of strategic value in our location for both sea and air communication as well as the cables 😉
Our only constitutional nod to neutrality is article 49. Which absent invasion, grants the power to make war to the Daíl. A referendum on whether we seek to change that article to "neutral" or to give a clearer language? Maybe, but other than many in Ireland assuming we are "legally" neutral rather than just "traditionally"? What would it gain.
The lack of devensive capability is a drum that many of us armchair generals have been banging for quite a while. The actions of Russia, the threats to Sweden and Finland and the nuclear sabre rattling only strengthens that need IMO.
In the interim? We should sent out Javelin and AT4 to Ukraine.
Poland joined a Nato alliance with Germany
most countries dont hold an infinite grudge
100% yes The Republic should join NATO. Russia has already started a cyberwar with us in case Pro Russia folks try to make us forget. A Hybrid war would be next on their agenda which we already see signs of courtesy of some odd comments from Russia about Ireland and the Irish language of late.
wasnt ireland already on the soviet nuclear target list?
Poland, UK, US, Canada, Estonia, Latvia, Norway, Greece, Lithuania, Denmark, Belgium, Czechia, Albania all suffered a lot moe a lot more recently at the hands of Germany, Romania, Hungary and Italy...
And for that to happen, both the UK and France would need to be conquered... at which time, being a member of NATO would mean squat, nor would having a tiny military.
Ireland's first priority is surely the survival of the Irish nation. Given Ireland's small size and geography, as few as one or two hydrogen bombs detonating on the island would extinguish our nation. In the event of a global nuclear war, we would probably be struck anyway; but that doesn't mean we should make it a certainty by joining an alliance out of which we stand to gain absolutely nothing but a nuclear target on our back.
Do we have any friends in Congress who could wrangle some nuclear bombs for us?
Sort our own defence forces first, then decide on NATO. At least we can truly be neutral if needed then too
" Is it time to join NATO ? "
Only if there's free pints !!
Maybe it is time.
Certainly its time for Ireland to have a proper think of what it wants from its defence forces. We have the weakest defence forces by far in Western Europe and a vast amount of Ocean and airspace to defend....
The basics would be nice, but yes, NATO may be a good idea alright.
Is it time to join NATO?
No. It's after a quarter to 2 in the morning. It's time for bed
Good to see you again, gortanna. They're missing you on the ct threads.
how are you fixed for the junior cert comrade ?
Not necessarily true. The 2% of GDP is a target - many countries don't meet it and aren't compelled to meet it. In fact, only 5 treaty members hit or exceed that target.
The two are not mutually exclusive. They would have our back against any aggressor in the interest of self preservation. Noel, it’s fair to say that the only reason someone would invade Ireland, would be to launch an attack against England.
Lol, so you accept they don't give a sh1t about us yet you hold on to the fairy tale that 'they've got our back'.
You're fooling yourself.
Perhaps - but first we would need to match spending on Defence as a percentage of GDP as per NATO standards.
We can offer Shannon in case any European NATO member wants to take a massive detour en route to wherever, possibly the Defence Forces have a developed a dance routine for TikTok and Colin Fennelly can still pull hard with a hurl. Truth is, the PSNI backed by a few Orange bands could probably invade us successfully
Ireland can't join Nato - members are expected to contribute to defence. Ireland doesn't have a lot to contribute. So the road to Nato would need big increases in defense, which seems to be a no-no here since it has been decided no-one will ever be hostile to Ireland (despite recent cyber attacks and current world events).
Stop spending 1million per day on plastic bollards and cycle lanes and invest in radar and heavy aviation to be somewhat useful to our nato neighbours.
Anyone = Russia
Value = some nice ports on the atlantic+ Control the airspace between Europe and US + missile bases within 300 odd miles of all major UK cities.
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