SF have been anti-EU, anti-NATO, and pro Putin for years... they have been the most pro Putin political party for decades.
That is why it should be brought up in this thread.
Do you have any comment on those matters, or you want to deflect again?
Mod - There are several threads discussing Russia/Ukraine already (CA, Politics, TGC) so please keep discussion of this directly relevant to this thread in the context of SF only please.
A simple google will reveal the depths of support Sinn Fein have shown Russia and Putin.
This is from 2019.
I think they tried to bury this, but the internet never forgets. Serious serious questions need to be asked of SF leadership now on where exactly do they stand in relation to foreign policy, the EU, NATO and Russia. We dont want to have a Putin puppet in government next time out.
https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:bYwsaIgJoG4J:https://www.facebook.com/sinnfein/posts/sinn-f%25C3%25A9in-condemns-the-political-military-and-economic-interference-in-ukraine-a/614970828572552/+&cd=6&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=au
I think you are desperately trying to use the plight of the Ukrainian people to score points against SF. Its very transparent and not a real discussion. SF aren't allowing him funnel his money. But you've no interest in the subject unless it make SF look bad. SF have always played up to Russia and others. Saying 'Russia and Putin' is click bait. Next week it'll be SF and the Nazis again. As I said, transparent.
Have SF come out and unequivically withdrawn and apologised for their previous stance against russia? Have they condemned maduro? Have they kicked out mcnamara yet?
When ming is ahead of you in apologising, you're on the wrong side of history.
I would argue SF went for political opportunism with marys statement and it's blown up in their face.
Brucie, do you unequivically condemn the previous pro-russian positions? What should be done with mcnamara? What do you think of maduro?
This is relevant, this is what SF are going to be standing for in the future, lay your cards out.
Are you not absolutely embarrased that the SF stance is more aligned with trump than the rest of the world?
There is no dodging or whatboutery available as an out here as francie discovered.
Did you listen to that?
How is depicting 'Russian control of Ukraine' as 'being under the thumb' of Russia, support for Putin? How is advocating for the EU and Russia to co-operate to benefit ordinary Ukrainians a bad thing?
Putin's actions doesn't absolve others of criticism, ridiculous scaremongering again Mark.
Mary Lou issued a statement condemning Russia just as SF did in 2014 yet you are allowed to depict the present one as political opportunism. Again, beyond ridiculous trying to debate with you on this when you ignore what you want to ignore.
Poor little Sinn Féin, those other big meanies are holding them accountable for their previous statements and actions.
Have they kicked out mcnamara?
Have they condemned maduro?
Have they apologisied for their previous actions with russia?
Will francie try and pull a "poor Sinn Féin" reply again?
Everybody knows what the answers are.
The time is now, keep digging or get out of the dirt.
what number can we contact the Army Council at.
Are they in the phone book.
What 'previous statements and actions'?
You ignore their previous statements of condemnation because it suits you.
What statement from SF has supported Putin?
Should SF condemn maduro?
Should they kick out mcnamara?
None of the patented francie slippy slidey maneuvring.
SF are in hock here, they could have got ahead of it, everyone else has, their empty words mean nothing.
Sunn Fein didn’t criticise Russia for annexation of Crimea. They criticised the EU, US and Russia for interfering in Ukrainian affairs. In the same statement they called on all parties to respect human rights then went on to not vote for a motion calling for just that in the EP.
So no statements where they supported Putin. OK.
I know very little about Venezuela. I'm researching it now and I'll get back to you on that. Interesting stuff here in the Dáil
Ceisteanna Eile - Other Questions – Wednesday, 27 Feb 2019 – Parliamentary Questions – Houses of the Oireachtas
The enemy of my enemy is my friend is the SF approach here. Although they have discovered in the last week or so that the previous stance regarding Russia will cost them votes.
Its plain and simple really.
Now going by comments on some of the SF supporters groups there is a fairly large section that still support Russia. I'd wonder with the IRSP running a few candidates up the north and the IRSP support for Russia will it cost SF any votes in the assembly elections.
The full text of the speech where that statement was made is here. Current Crisis in Ukraine: Motion – Dáil Éireann (31st Dáil) – Thursday, 3 Apr 2014 – Tithe an Oireachtais (oireachtas.ie)
I see zero support for Russia in it. In fact I see criticism of them and an acceptance that Russia in the Ukraine would be Ukraine 'under the thumb' of Moscow. I'd be in full agreement with this bit too:
There is an urgent need for restraint from all sides within Ukraine and from foreign powers at this crucial time. We have not seen that from the EU, the US or Russia. The interim government in Kiev has very little legitimacy, particularly for people living in the east. The country continues to be divided, and attempts by the EU, the US and Russia to increase their influence merely exacerbate tensions and make complex problems worse. I am under no illusion regarding Russia's self-interest in this region and its reasons for its recent behaviour, but the EU’s actions have been just as disastrous for the Ukrainian people.
The EU has ploughed ahead with its association agreement with Ukraine, one of the primary causes of the escalation in the first place. Surely the EU should not be forcing through such an important document with an interim government that was not democratically elected. It is basically locking future elected governments into a straitjacket in respect of the EU's political and economic structures.
Hilarious that you're acting like you're not weaseling out of condeming SF.
As for Maduro:
SF defends attendance at Maduro inauguration (rte.ie)
From the horses mouth:
Sinn Féin attend Venezualan Presidential inauguration | Sinn Féin (sinnfein.ie)
Venezuelan President Maduro reaffirms support for Putin amid Russia-Ukraine conflict (republicworld.com)
Still no condemnation.
Chris MacManus voting against this resolution:
Situation at the Ukrainian border and in Russian-occupied territories of Ukraine, 16 December 2021 | EP resolutions | Documents | D-RU | Delegations | European Parliament (europa.eu)
The resolution:
- supports Ukraine's independence, sovereignty and territorial integrity of Ukraine and reiterates EU's policy of non-recognition of the illegal annexation of the Autonomous Republic of Crimea and the city of Sevastopol;
- underlines that the Russian military build-up at Ukraine's borders represents a threat to Europe's peace and security;
- calls on Russia to respect its international obligations, namely the principles and commitments of OSCE on the transparency of military movements;
- demands the EU's reduction of gas dependency on Russia;
Horrendous individual, indefensible.
And laughing at the immediate whataboutery.
You can't bring yourself to do it can you? 🤣
Do what?
There is a lot in that Dáil debate to take in, from a number of quarters. I don't know enough about the Venezulan situation and I am not going to waffle or invent a position based on a lack of research or knowledge of what has been said. Like some around here who seem to want to ignore what suits them.
Can you link to the 2014 statement please
Because for a country annexing part of another(like GB did NI),they seem to be soft,very soft on Russia right up to December of last year in the Dáil
Mainly because they were wrestling with their consciences regarding their old friend and mentor,the Soviet bear.
No consistency
Plenty hypocrisy
populism
And luckily they made the decision this week pretty quick
Going on the last episode though,they're probably already looking for the row back and have it good to go. .
Why are you in here whatabouting it if you know nothing?
You want discussions but it's purely the "poor SF" responses all the time and you've now admitted you knew nothing about it, yet still tried to pull that move, I mean, what the h*ll are you thinking, there's a war on, ukrainians are being killed by an aggressor, SF haven't helped the situation through their lack of support for Ukraine previously and haven't owned up to it and fully condemned their past actions.
Everyone expects this behavior from you, why lean into it? Next time you whatabout or attempt to pull the heartstrings for poor SF don't be surprised when your opinion is summarily disregarded.
With what is happening today, this behaviour is beyond bizarre. I'm sure this will fall on deaf ears but have some humility, have some humanity.
I don't know who McNamara is. I think they were wrong on Russia regarding the build up. I'm more a cut ties completely with China and Russia person but I know money trumps all for most governments.
No. You over estimate SF's hold on me. They are a party who have the best chance at ousting the cancer of FF/FG and I like that they prefer building over buying and leasing. Thats it. I couldn't name more than 4 or 5 of them. We'd a Taoiseach call Claire Coco in a cringeworthy attempt at licking Trump's arse. That embarrassed me.
I think your problem here is you are confusing people calling out pro government propaganda and complete hypocrisy as supporting SF. There are people like yourself who will only discuss Putin or Trump and their ties to Ireland if it damages SF.
Crowe, their Foreign affairs spokesperson made it in the Dáil, linked above ^. Still waiting for support for Russia and Putin in it to be pointed out.
If they are not careful, even Wallace and Daly will be out quicker than Sinn Fein in apologising for previous views on Russia.
I don't think apologising in hindsight achieves anything. We'd people calling for an end to sanctions on Sadam. Let's look at why we don't expel Russian diplomats and freeze Putin's money in Ireland? Its a rhetorical question, we know why. No genuine interest.
Are you blaming SF for the war? Because they didn't say things the way you want them said? 😁The support for the Ukranian people is all there in Crowe's statement but of course you'll ignore that too.
How dare you suggest I am minimising what is happening...why can't you discuss without the mis-representation?
If it can't be used to attack SF there's no interest. All this 'concern' is just a vehicle for political one-upmanship. Using the Ukrainians like others.
The word is Tacit
So alluding to Russian control as 'being under a thumb' is 'tacit' support?
Being 'under no illusions about Russian self interest' is 'tacit' support?
I think you are struggling here Marine tbh
Again, no answers just poor SF.
Where did I blame SF for the war? You admitted you know nothing about SF and their pro-russian history in this area (as was laid bare earlier), clearly SF are a fart in the wind in the effect they have on it but their condemnation has rang hollow due to their recorded history here.
Do you condemn Maduro?
Do you condemn MacManus?
Francie was here when Sinn Fein support for Putin was discussed weeks ago.
I admitted I know nothing of SF and their pro Russian history? Where?
I said I know nothing about the Venezuelan situation. You getting confused?
If Maduro is a tyrant, I condemn him. If the Venezuelan situation is a complex one as it seems to be from reading that Dáil debate then I will make a judgement call.
Why would I condemn McManus? Trying to de-escalate and avoid a confrontation is admirable. Sanctions didn't exactly work in that regard either.
Being critical of the US/NATO is perfectly justifiable too.
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