Of course it makes a difference. Unless you believe all non Irish people are the same. An asylum seeker is not a refugee.
There is little difference in the outcomes for Asylum Seekers arriving in Ireland. The article I linked above shows that only 10 were sent back out of a figure of 1,275 that arrived here in 2018 - but I guess you never bothered to read it?
What is the lassaiz faire attitude to citizenship and in what world do you think it could be acceptable for citizens of a country to not be allowed vote?
See my previous post about Citizenship Ceremonies. I don't think it's acceptable for voting rights to be extended to new citizens, especially in large numbers, when their influence could change our country. Would you for instance like to see Sharia Law being introduced to Ireland, would you like to see laws enacted such as the LGBT free zones that sprung up in Poland?
Nobody is ever putting a clause back into the constitution in relation to marriage. Crazy to even suggest otherwise.
Can you be so sure? I'll have the six numbers to Wednesday night's lotto there while you're at it! Problem is with advocates for open-borders policy is they are so naïve to think that nothing bad will happen, or Ireland will do multi-culturalism differently than the UK, France, Germany, USA, etc... where they've first hand experiences of how it doesn't work.
I cannot even take you serious because I explain why it's a good idea for people living in a country to become citizens, you then talk about encouraging people to come here and then continue to speak about asylum seekers and refugees, when you don't even understand the difference.
You don't take me serious because you've no serious counter argument to any of the points I raised earlier, you won't address any of them, Funny that. You think that saying I don't understand the difference between asylum seekers and refugees is some sort of 'gotcha' moment. I've explained above that when it comes to Ireland's open border policy, the distinguishment between the two is very thin and blurred.
And the point that anyone who wishes to become a citizen of Ireland must obviously already be a resident of the country 🙄
Like I said, we're not a football supporters club, we're a nation - one that should be respected and maintained for the people who have resided here for centuries.
Something I pointed out long ago on this thread,normally when you see refugees it's a mix of male,female,kids and the elderly...what we seen the last few years is a majority of young males nearly 95% in most pictures or videos...which as has been pointed out makes it harder for genuine refugees
I have been watching images of Ukrainian refugees on TV.
Almost all terrified women and children.
They appear in stark contrast to the hordes of well fed, well dressed young men who have rampaged through Europe to the points of greatest welfare payments over the last few years as part of the bogus "refugee crisis". The movement of this ocean of humanity has been characterised by fraud and violence.
It highlights to me what an absolute, shameful scam our asylum industry is.
The tragedy is that our capacity to aid the Ukrainian nation is greatly diminished by our immoral accommodation of a multitude of liars and criminals.
I cannot even take you serious because I explain why it's a good idea for people living in a country to become citizens, you then talk about encouraging people to come here and then continue to speak about asylum seekers and refugees, when you don't even understand the difference. And the point that anyone who wishes to become a citizen of Ireland must obviously already be a resident of the country 🙄
Asylum seekers are not refugees. Your the one with fake news I'm afraid.
It barely makes a difference in Ireland https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-30920320.html with 85% getting to stay on here.
Yes if someone is a citizen of a country of course they should have a vote in how it is run. You know the marriage referendum was to amend the constitution yes?
With the current laissez-faire approach to giving citizenship I don't think voting rights should be extended so easily. You know the constitution can be amended at any time - marriage vote can be reversed again.
Why should we encourage people to become citizens? Because people who are citizens of a country tend to see that country as home, they are likely to stay, perhaps have families and become valuable members of society. Why would we not encourage people to care about the country? Do you want a migrant population, living here for a few years, moving on again, having no interest in the country, or not caring about the country or its population
Encouraging more people to come here is putting further strain on services, I've listed lots of reasons including housing, healthcare, education and welfare earlier in this thread as to why it's a bad idea to continue with unrestricted migration and our laissez-faire asylum/refugee system. You chose to ignore most of that though.
Multiculturalism is just a euphemism for fewer Europeans, that's all it boils down to in effect.
I've never seen a latter day twitter shinner championing multiculturalism in Palestine, South Africa or any other non European nation. Nor will you see them extolling the virtues of the plantation of the North.
What was it Pearse said? Not only free but Gaelic? He must have been a Narrow Nationalist according to Mary Lou. 😂
Now that we have an actual war in Europe ( We've been told that we're good Europeans after all) with actual European refugees we'll have f***k all ability to cope with them due to the amount of chancers we've taken in to show what good sorts we are.
And that's what's happening, I can think of one particular expat/migrant group on Facebook who love to berate this country and its people, post a nice image of Irish countryside or attraction will garner 40 or 50 likes....Post something denigrating Ireland and it attracts hundreds of likes.These people see Ireland in economic terms only,they'll never be Irish and don't want to be.We're really going to fcuk this country up
Why should we encourage people to become citizens? Because people who are citizens of a country tend to see that country as home, they are likely to stay, perhaps have families and become valuable members of society. Why would we not encourage people to care about the country? Do you want a migrant population, living here for a few years, moving on again, having no interest in the country, or not caring about the country or its population.
If someone decides to apply for citizenship of this country, then they should be entitled to vote in the exact same way as every other citizen.
Eh no. In time we will see groups of different cultures become large enough to sway elections. Would you like to see the Marriage Equality Referendum be put back on the table for another vote because a large enough cultural group here wants it gone? Be careful of what you wish for.
Of course asylum seekers are not eligible for citizenship either......
Fake News and mis-information:
A person granted refugee status can apply for citizenship through naturalisation once they have 3 years of residency. Residency is calculated from the date of arrival in the State
From: https://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/moving_country/irish_citizenship/becoming_an_irish_citizen_through_naturalisation.html#l7e9cb
Of course, not everyone wishes to become Irish citizens, which should be encouraged of course.
Why should we be encouraging people to become Irish citizens? We're a nation not a football supporters club.
They are when they get invited to the regular Civic Citizenship Ceremonies, a few thousand every year. These started in 2011.
The only place you won't see multiculturalism in Ireland is in property advert.
So weak are the arguments for multi-culturalism that the advocates of such policies resort to attacking those with differing opinions. They level accusations of racism as their default argument, and usually it's the only argument they've got. All of your concerns about immigration are really deep rooted/subconscious racist thoughts and you're abusing your white privilege or some shyte like that when bringing up your points they'll insist.
This is what most people mean tho when they say they're anti-multiculturalism, there actually just pro-white & anti-colour
Because, of course, the complexity of human thought and expression, can be boxed into such a simple and binary category. Absolute rubbish.
I've lived in Africa. I've lived in Asia. In the last two decades, I've spent more time living among non-white people than I have with white people. Most of my romantic relationships have been with non-white people. The same again for my friendships. And because I am against the modern sense of multiculturalism, I'm some kind of pro-white racist? Oh, I noted you said most, but that's just a play on words to excuse your own intolerance.
The funny thing is that this thread shows just how inferior the arguments for multiculturalism have been. Your contribution above is a perfect example. You haven't countered the objections made in this thread. Instead, you've found one voice expressing their own narrow views, and decided that represented "most" people that opposed your views.
This is just another deflection, in a very long line of deflections.
One question the supporters of these policies will never answer is... how many can come here before we say enough? Put a figure on it.
But they won't. They want unlimited immigration and they don't want an expiry date on that either.
Poor fella. Out of his gourd.
We do have enough of all those things you claim we don't.
We absolutely do not. We're one quarter of a trillion euros in debt.
we just have government that don't govern right.
Agreed, and the opposition are no better at all.
nothing to do with people from other countries and everything to do with our own government
It's a bit of both - we've the mega-rich speculators from abroad purchasing everything we build up for a song aided by our government, we also have welfare leeches from abroad who our government will not deport despite having the legislation to do so.
But it's par for the course in Ireland, the working and middle classes are leeched from the bottom by welfare spongers and from the top by the silver-spooners who invent every trick to avoid paying their share.
Wow that's quite sad. No surprise about the comments and likes as we see how these people act on here and it's what you would call an echo chamber. I just find this particular lad a pretty sad case because he looks like my grandad and at that age I think you've lived so long that you deserve to take it easy and enjoy a simple life with your family around. I hope he has this and isn't absorbed into the echo chamber rabbit hole online. I think it's probably how a lot of the "alt right" crowd on here will end up, old and alone and spouting on about this stuff. Posting and the childish liking each others posts stuff in this thread well into their 80s lol!
Came across this shite, I can't think of a single place in Ireland you are not allowed to go to because you are white, what's more, worrying is the comments & likes this video has.
The last few years our political class seem to be trotting around the globe looking after all and sundry...except doing the one job they're elected to do, look after the interests of the the Irish people, people who have paid into and contributed to the foundations of the state...they're globalists now
Asylum seekers are not eligible to vote 🙄
Good post. A real nightmare for the regular Gemma O Doherty supporters here who think they are somehow convincing people that everything is the fault of foreigners and don't seem to grasp how they come across to the average reader who stumbles across the thread. Totally agree about the government also. I don't know the figures but I imagine a lot of people in the government are also landlords. That's a conflict of interest when it comes to resolving the housing crisis.
You lived in China for more than a decade....that any place/town in China is bigger than Ireland, so presumably you are the definition of 'well travelled' -
The city I lived in, Xi'an, has roughly 12 million people, so yeah. As for well travelled that's a different scenario, but as I've travelled in Asia, Africa, Russia etc, I'd be pretty good on that score.
and then near the end of your post you mentioned Dublin/Galway is plenty at "diversity in terms of ethnicity or nationalities". I am truly sorry here, I stand on all my points, and I think it is meaningless for us to continue this conversation (if there is one to begin with)
haha.. you're giving up discussing this already? Wow.. I guess you're not interested in a discussion, and more interested in simply declaring your opinions.
Walk around my midlands town, and you'll see plenty of Black people and Eastern Europeans, along with a sizable population of Indians. The college attracts a load of Chinese each year too, many of whom have settled there. That's a town with about 20k people. And then if I wander around Galway or Dublin, I see the same kind of representation... which in all fairness would be representative of most countries outside of Europe. Considering Ireland is such a small nation, I'd say the demographic shift of foreign born people here is rather strong. It's not like the UK, but few countries are... and we're well behind the immigration curve on that score. Give it time.. it'll happen here too. Unfortunately, for the same reasons, and by following similar policies.
And all I said there are meant to be general, because I am not here to cause a fuss/stir or judge. I simply voiced my opinion and mainly to give posters like bubblypop a pat on shoulder on "you are alright". I don't know him/her at all nor I care to look up any post history etc - it doesn't matter does it - I only went back a few pages back that's all.
Without being specific, the posters involved can't engage with you, and defend their statements. That's a core part of any discussion. Without being specific with your points, you're not giving people any real opportunity to treat your opinions with any kind of consideration. You really think you're the first poster to sweep into the thread, throw out generalised judgments, and sweep out again when confronted?
Today I actually learned that it is just not the government being incompetent - if there are actually of people blaming on foreigners on the fucked up housing crisis we are having, then ya there is no hope - what else do people blame on 'foreigners'? Is a mini brexit situation here aha.
You seem to believe that posters are blaming "foreigners" exclusively for the housing crisis. They're not. They're saying that they contribute to it.. and they're not wrong. The need for the government to provide social housing to refugees, Asylum seekers, etc, does cut into what's available for the market.
The difference between their posts and yours is that they acknowledge other considerations being involved. You've decided the thread of full of people blaming foreigners. It's not. It's full of remarks about the government, the range of political parties, the civil service, and yes, immigration (rather than "foreigners").
As for the mini brexit comment, you're really showing your ignorance of the thread... and I'm convinced now that you haven't considered the arguments that have gone on here within the thread. There are more than two sides to this discussion. There's many different opinions on the overall topic.
Yes in short, Ireland is owned by corporates - it is intended that way and it is well known, for the worse or better since around 2000.
And you know what, if the politicians could do a list of key points like you did and start to work from that - maybe we have some hope to finally resolve some issues. But sadly we all know the reality that the elites are too busy on getting rich/fat and literally sh!t on the people all these years.
Everything you said there - nothing is sustainable and yet the bubble is getting bigger - it will explode at some point and then people will leave - rinse and repeat. The population/foreigner/refugees/housing problems etc are mostly symptoms - people need to face and deal with the cause. There is no proper planning or visions from the leaders of the country - what do people expect? The problems will magically resolve by themselves?
So ya, we shall eradicate half the population - that will solve all the problems surely...
I only went through 5-6 pages back - and yes there is a literally circle blaming 'foreigners' and then a few get "ganged" up.
You lived in China for more than a decade....that any place/town in China is bigger than Ireland, so presumably you are the definition of 'well travelled' - and then near the end of your post you mentioned Dublin/Galway is plenty at "diversity in terms of ethnicity or nationalities". I am truly sorry here, I stand on all my points, and I think it is meaningless for us to continue this conversation (if there is one to begin with).
Today I actually learned that it is just not the government being incompetent - if there are more people out there blaming on foreigners on the fucked up housing crisis we are having, then ya there is no hope - what else do people blame on 'foreigners'? Is a mini brexit situation here aha.
And.where do you live?
do you rent or Do you own your own house?
A link to 10,000 asylum seekers into this country in one year? Or else you're just rabble rousing
I have never been more disenchanted with Irish politics, all scrambling for Twitter likes and kudos instead of taking decisions that might in the long run help people
Not just SF. Most immigrants won't share the baggage of knowing what FF and others are like, and will vote for them, because simply put, all the political parties are behind multiculturalism and immigration.
We don't have any realistic options.. politically speaking all our political parties are content to sacrifice the future of Irish people, just so that they can say we live in a diverse nation, and that we support everyone who is in need (regardless of whether they're actually in need.)
God forbid, that any Irish person might be in need, because they'll come second or third place, with the Irish middle class coming fourth or fifth.
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