Not quite. They also relieve narrow urban streets of car congestion... the relief is provided just as much to the town as to the driver.
Mildly annoyed by the term Relief Road instead of bypass. It’s so named because relief roads “relieve traffic congestion” which is 20th century nonsense.
2+2 roads with roundabout junctions. Abbeyfeale will be a 6.5km bypass to the South of the town. Newcastle West will be a 7.5km bypass to the North of the town.
Ok thanks. Is it just relief roads that are being done or full bypass from Rathkeale to Fealesbridge on the Killarney side of Abbeyfeale? I had read that it is just relief roads which at least is a big improvement.
Not until well after the Ryder Cup. Neither has even gone for planning yet.
Both are listed in the NDP. Newcastle West to go to construction in 2029, Abbeyfeale in 2030.
Hi
Is there any indication when these projects will be built given that the Adare bypass will be done for the Ryder cup. It would be a shame if you couldn't travel straight onto Killarney. It is a huge opportunity to open up the western corridor from the north west down to the south west.
I didn't see any mention of these projects in the government's latest development plan.
Thanks
When you consider how many other very busy and much higher traffic junctions are in other parts of the country, if this scheme is done with roundabouts there is no chance of them coming back later and replacing them with GSJ’s. In this case, roundabouts are totally justified as a design choice.
Er, no. The alternative to a roundabout isn’t no junction, it’s a compact GSJ. That has its own safety issues. No road is completely safe.
Taking the worst case of a lethally inattentive driver joining just as a car is to their immediate right, the roundabout is actually safer because of the lower speed. The “victim” car has longer to react, and their speed of impact will be much slower in any case.
Typical speed through a roundabout is around 40 km/h. The worst case of a car entering a roundabout without looking will be hit by another car at around 40-50 km/h. Fatality from car-to-car collisions at that speed is extremely unlikely, even for “T-bone” impacts like this.
Meanwhile, someone ignoring the stop-line on a GSJ on-road and entering without looking will be hit by a car travelling at 100 km/h. At that speed, side-impacts have a very high chance of being fatal.
@MICKEYG - I’m mostly in agreement with you - it will be a great improvement, and I hope you didn’t take my example as anything more than good-natured ribbing. The point I was making is that, while it’d be great to allow the fastest possible travel, it comes at a very high cost for very little actual benefit. The only reason to use a compact GSJ is when most traffic is through-traffic and there’s a lot of traffic overall. At lower traffic levels, and wherethe traffic is more evenly split between joining and through traffic, a roundabout is more efficient.
However a roundabout is significantly more dangerous, so there is a probability that someone will not live.
It is not just about me, but of course you know that.
I think build it right the first time is always the cheapest option. If there are no plans to ever go back to it then fine but if we end up upgrading the junctions in 5-10 years it will cost double.
It will be a huge upgrade regardless.
This isn’t a busy enough stretch of road to justify a grade-separated junction on capacity grounds, so let’s look at the options open to the designers for that stretch of road: take the 80 m wide roundabout and the 100 m of road either side…
Option I: Let’s not delay Mickey under any circumstances; he’s a busy man you know. Cost: €20 million for compact Grade-separated Junction
TOTAL: 10.1 s.
Option II: The crippling injustice of a roundaboutCost: €1 million.
TOTAL: 21.3 s.
Using the roundabout is all of 11.3 s slower. I think you’ll live.
It looks like the roundabouts are only at either end of the scheme, which is TII's preference when there is a change in road type. Hopefully if the rest of the N21 is upgraded to 2+2 then these roundabouts will be upgraded to GSJs.
What made you think I can't navigate a roundabout?
It's having to slow down at the end of one section of 2x2 and then start going again on a new section of 2x2. We have the same setup on the Castleisland bypass. It's not the end of the world but not ideal.
I have the same "issue" re having to slow down for toll booths when the M50 has shown it can be all automated.
The less stops and starts the better the experience.
This is the size of roundabout used on 2+2 roads:
Castlebar Bypass - Google Maps That’s 80 metres in diameter. If you can’t navigate a roundabout as big as the ones on this scheme, I don’t know what to say to you.
Roundabouts. Aargh!
A design update for these schemes was published today, 27th March 2025. This design update shows the proposed mainlines, side road realignments and junction layouts as well as whether the roads are in cut or on fill. Additionally, it shows the proposed access arrangements, indicative land take lines, watercourse diversions and the location of drainage ponds and other details.
A design update for these schemes was published today, 27th March 2025.
This design update shows the proposed mainlines, side road realignments and junction layouts as well as whether the roads are in cut or on fill. Additionally, it shows the proposed access arrangements, indicative land take lines, watercourse diversions and the location of drainage ponds and other details.
https://www.n21abbeyfeale.ie/design-update-drawings
It looks like 2+2
Where does it show the future roundabout?
Looks like they're planning on a N21/R576 roundabout with the new road, old road, R576 and Feale Bridge N21 at Fealesbridge. Big safety improvement given the right turning traffic from the R576 to the N21 northbound having to turn across high speed traffic from Castleisland.
https://www.limerick.ie/council/newsroom/news/n21-newcastle-west-n21-abbeyfeale-road-scheme-design-update-of-the-preferred
Same article as pertains to Newcastlewest bypass.
Kudos to @pajoguy for posting on the M21 thread
https://www.limerickleader.ie/news/home/1320146/houses-knocked-and-eighty-farmers-affected-for-limerick-bypasses.html
No surprise with decision of the Board No surprise with decision of the Board https://www.limerickleader.ie/news/home/1286345/concerns-emerge-over-environmental-impact-of-planned-bypasses-of-limerick-towns.html
Ground Investigation Works nearing completion; The N21 Project Team would like to thank landowners and property holders for their ongoing co-operation and assistance during the recent Ground Investigations. The majority of works are due for completion in the coming weeks, although there will be some ongoing monitoring of standpipes over the next 12 months.
Archaeology Geophysical Survey: This targeted survey has commenced and will inform where archaeological features could be found on the scheme. It is anticipated that this survey will be completed by the end of May 2023.
Noise Surveys due to commence in April/May 2022; Noise impacts will be assessed as part of the Environmental Impact Assessment process. Impacts on residences and communities due to noise will be minimised by avoiding houses and villages wherever possible, and where necessary, noise barriers such as earth bunds or fences may be proposed to mitigate the impact.
The scheme will be required to comply with national standards on noise levels, and the design and construction of the scheme will be carried out in accordance with TII’s Environmental Assessment and Construction Guidelines.
To determine where mitigation is required, modelling of noise levels will be undertaken in accordance with TII Phase 3 (Design and Environmental Development) of project development. An initial assessment of the Route Options was undertaken at earlier stages in the project, and now detailed assessment can be undertaken of noise impacts along the Preferred Route Corridor.
To develop the noise model, noise monitoring will be undertaken at various locations in the study area. The locations will be selected in-line with TII Noise Guidelines. Noise monitoring is not required at every dwelling house - the selected locations will be representative of the wider area and will be chosen based on a variety of factors and how representative they are of the surrounding area. The noise model will be checked against the results of these on-the-ground noise surveys to verify the accuracy of the model, allowing noise impacts to be determined along the full length of the route. The noise model will allow the project team to assess noise impacts at every dwelling in the study area. It will take into account traffic numbers, ground levels and the design of the proposed scheme.
The noise model will allow the design team to determine the location, extent and type of noise mitigation required, and these measures will then be included in the scheme design. The Environmental Impact Assessment Report for the scheme will also include details of the noise impacts and the mitigation proposed.
The latest.
I didn't post this at the time but the route selection report was published for this last year.
At this stage we are looking at 6.5km of Type 2 dual carriageway.
https://n21abbeyfeale.ie/downloads-option-selection-report
https://www.radiokerry.ie/news/surveys-ongoing-in-development-of-bypasses-for-abbeyfeale-and-newcastle-west-313092
https://irl.eu-supply.com/ctm/Supplier/PublicPurchase/228232/1/0
Tender out for ground investigation for the route
Here’s the preferred routes of both N21 schemes together.
Tender out for topographical surveys along the route.
Preferred route published https://n21abbeyfeale.ie/
