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True. I think it was Nikita Sergeyevich Khrushchev who said that. Maybe they both did? Without that extra help Russia woild have collapsed even if they ultimately did most of the dying and killing.
America defeated the Germans, Italians and Japanese. It was their resources and ability to project force that defeated all three Axis powers. Plus they did so with lighter casualties than everyone else.
I'm simply stating the obvious: that without US resources Stalins troops would have faced the Germans on foot, barefoot, with only bayonets. The US supplied all of that.
Irish Embassy working hard to ensure all surrogate born babies get out of Ukraine. https://www.thejournal.ie/ukraine-surrogacy-simon-coveney-5688453-Feb2022/
This is nonsense. Obviously so when all you acknowledge is Western material aid and repeatedly ignore for example things like air superiority which the Soviets would not have been able to achieve in 1944 without the Luftwaffe focusing on defence of Germany. Or all the tanks that never made it to the Eastern front because they never made it out of the factory.
So no the laurels dont belong to dictator Stalin because he was culpable in the deaths of many of those Soviet citizens through his alliance with the Nazis and purge of red army - which strengthened the Nazis and left Soviets vulnerable to assault.
My form none of your concern. Back on topic. This imminent war headline appeared in the media for weeks. Still no invasion.
Troll Thread derail tactic no. xxx, start some stupid stale discussion about who "won" WW2, who was the most evil dictator (lads on here will tend to give good old Joe Stalin the benefit of the doubt I'd guess! The man was under pressure, you can't make an omelette without breaking a few eggs!), who had the best tank etc etc. Yawn.
I'd hardly be looking at Stalin as a paragon. Sure, the Soviets were instrumental in winning the war, as was everyone else involved.
Stalin was, however, a lunatic and was the cause of millions of deaths.
Either way, this has nothing to do with thr discussion at hand. Good distraction.
Where is the negotiations with Ukraine,
France has no say in Ukraine,the Germans came out and secured consesssions they didn't ,last week it was the french who said they had an agreement , but half an hour later Russia said no .
The only negotiations should be between Ukraine , Nato and the EU
Welcome back, can't wait for you to get back to full Cheerful Spring form.
https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/110081462/#Comment_110081462
Look man, I'm not saying your heroes didn't play any part in the war, they did.
I'm simply stating the obvious that the Soviets played by far the biggest part in it. When World War II ended in 1945 few doubted that the victor’s laurels belonged mainly to Joseph Stalin. Under his leadership the Soviet Union had just won the war of the century, and that victory was closely identified with his role as the country’s supreme commander.
Eighty per cent of all the combat of World War II took place on the Eastern Front. During the four years of the Soviet–German struggle the Red Army destroyed 600 enemy divisions (Italian, Hungarian, Romanian, Finnish, Croat, Slovak and Spanish as well as German). As well as this more than three quarters Nazi losses were from the soviets. As well as all of this we cannot forget the overwhelming sacrifice of the Soviets who lost ten million soldiers and nearly 20 million civilians in the war with Hitler. Compared to 300,000 losses of the US army and a few thousand civilians.
World War II was a global conflict of immense proportions in which 50 million people died, but at its heart was the epic struggle between Stalin and Hitler on the Eastern Front.
On the other hand, Britain and the United States did supply a huge quantity of material aid to the USSR that greatly facilitated the Soviet victory over Germany.
Of course, Putin is willing to negotiate. France thank god willing to. Unfortunately, the US and UK are imperialists and at this moment are hoping a war breaks out. WW3 real possibility then because of what will happen. Don't think going to invade here unless channels of communication got so bad left with no choice. There no single leader past or future of Russia will accept Ukraine joining a hostile alliance of nations. Think that's ok is stupid.
It's all over social media ..
Wonder where the french are
This is being reported differently elsewhere.
France24
French President Emmanuel Macron and Russian leader Vladimir Putin on Sunday agreed to work for a ceasefire in eastern Ukraine, Macron's office said. The two leaders also agreed on "the need to favour a diplomatic solution to the ongoing crisis and to do everything to achieve one", the Élysée said, adding that French Foreign Minister Jean-Yves Le Drian and his Russian counterpart Sergei Lavrov would meet "in the coming days".
Ukraine is hostile to Russia in direct response to Russian aggressions and attempts at domination against it which are driving it into NATO.
Ukraine gave up its nukes in a treaty with Russia. Russia violated that treaty. Ukraine did not. True or false? Come on answer up.
Stop being a conduit for Russian propaganda.
The DM is claiming Putin has ordered the invasion/war. https://www.dailymail.co.uk/home/index.html
This is nonsense. It wasnt just in material that the Western allies helped to change the outcome on the Eastern front for the reasons already outlined which you have ignored in an obvious manner as you have no response to it.
It took the US, UK and USSR to defeat the Nazis.
Looking at numbers of troops or casualties ignores the crucial aspect of fighting power contained in the ships planes tanks. Casualties in air forces may look small compared to infantry yet they prevented tanks from ever making it to the frontline to inflict those casualties.
Double standards are always a good read. USA was about to airstrike Cuba in the ’60s and get rid of Russian nukes and next invade only for Kennedy to realize that begin WW3, Cuba was hundred of miles from the coastline of Florida.
Russia has an equal reasonable right to protect its security when a hostile alliance wants to set up shop in Ukraine. Nato's one and only aim is to destroy Russia. It has a military aim, not an economic one. Would the UK tolerate a hostile force setting up shop in Scotland? What would the US do if Spetsnaz and Russian troops were airborne into Mexico? Pure silliness we think Russia should not be concerned by this advance of Nato further to the east.
Think most societies do prefer the western way of living and freedom, it is not about that. You don't understand Russian moves, potentially make a grave mistake. He's trying to do the politics and negotiation route ( carrot and stick approach) Putin make a peace and friendship if we agree to a couple of concerns and if we don't care then the Russian army will march into Ukraine and then whole different ball game then for security for the rest of Europe including Ireland. Right now got a chance to solve it the right way Ukraine remains out of Nato.
I hope you're right and this fizzles out to nothing. I don't care how they spin it if war is avoided. Spin is inevitable no matter what happens.
Seems Macron and Putin have been talking ceasefires. Ukranian, Russian, Germans and French reps to talk later tonight. More France-Russia meetings planned for next few days, apparently.
As I've already said numerous times the USA didn't do nothing, they helped the soviets defeat the Nazis.
All I'm saying is the Soviets done most of the work, fought most of the battles, killed more than 3 quarters of the Nazis single handed and launched the invasion that finished them off, the Soviets were also bombed to shreds on their own land. The Nazis spent the majority of their time during the war trying to defeat the Soviets.
The Soviets lost 10 million soldiers in WW2 and also 27 million civilians, the USA lost a measley 350,000 soldiers and a few thousand civilians. The USA provided massive logistical support to the Soviets,no one is denying that.
Don't get me wrong when I was younger I used to also believe it was the US and UK who defeated Hitler, they have very much painted this picture for us but it simply doesn't hold up to scrutiny.
Rubbish and lies.
If they hadnt expanded to protect Poland and the Baltic states they'd be the same corrupt gangster state Belarus is in today under the Russian gun.
Ukraine isnt a threat to Russia. They didnt poke Russia. Your role as a conduit for Russian lies is pretty obvious.
There were people in the west, who saw all of this potentially happening one day.
But sadly, their voices were ignored.
It was the Clinton administration in the 90's who pushed hard for expansion east, and they made no secret of their need to contain Russia. But some people disagreed with that there was any need to contain Russia, at that time, as they were not actively threatening anyone.
After the US senate approved the NATO expansion in the late 90's, US diplomat George Kennan said this in an interview shortly afterwards: "I think the Russians will gradually react quite adversely, and it will affect their policies" ... "I think it is a tragic mistake. There was no reason for this whatsoever. No one was threatening anyone else".
Prophetic words.
Unfortunately, rather than trying pacify a former adversary, they instead decided to poke the bear as much as possible and find out what would happen. Well now we know, we have a very pi$$ed off bear!
They didn't send "money". They sent tanks when they were desperately needed to defend Moscow. They sent the trucks and fuel without which the Russians could not have advanced into Germany as they did. They diverted German divisions and armaments that if deployed to the Eastern front would have given the Germans the edge. Think of all the German resources that went into U-boats, battlecruisers, V1 and V2 rockets, night fighers, anti-aircraft defences, the Atlantic Wall. All the German divisions and material lost in North Africa, Normandy, tied down in Italy. Through naval blockade and air bombardment they cripped German industry so that Russia faced a greatly weakened Germany.
That's not "minor help" except those trying to rewrite history just as they try to rewrite the facts of Russian aggression versus Ukraine.
And remember who signed a treaty with the Nazis, handing over material to make them stronger and participated in the invasion of Poland... then had the bright idea to leave their fixed defences to the slaughtered in vulnberable positions by the Nazis when they inevitably turned on them? Yep, the Soviets, their own worst enemy. As morally bankrupt then as Russia is today.
The funny thing is all these Putin apologists complain about Us/UK apologists for defending things like the Iraq war and other conflicts. Then they try to pile everyone condeming Russia into that same box despite the fact that the majority of people on these very threads condemning Russia at the minute were probably just as condemning of US/UK actions.
The irony of complaining about people justifying the actions of war criminals while defending the actions of a human rights abuser and potential (if not already) war criminal.
Either way the USA done fairly little fighting against the axis in comparison to the Soviet Union.
The soviets done most of the work this is an undeniable fact, I'm not saying the USA done nothing at all so stop trying to argue with this undeniable fact.
I don't think you understand the meaning of the word gaslight, it doesn't fit what your trying to class as gaslighting.
You don't muster up 160k plus troops, move half your airforce and launch most of your navy for the crack.
Think what you like but your being had.
He's the absolute pits. There's no words that are bad enough to describe him and his actions.
Must feel all warm and fuzzy deflecting talk away from a piece of dirt like that.
$10 billion (about $470 billion is today's money).
Minor help.
Catch yourself on.
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