No reasonable person thinks that Germany or France are puppets of the U.S.
This line of debate just leaves you looking foolish and undermines any legitimate points you may wish to add on thread.
What have U.S. statements got to do with The Foreign Minister of Germany warning Russia that if the troops who are undeniably massed on the border of Ukraine invade then energy supplies from Russia to Germany will be stopped. That is an independent nation warning Russia of the consequences for them of destabilizing Eastern Europe.
TBH I think you're badly misreading the French and Germans, they had to harden their rhetoric because of the Yanks but their position hasn't altered in my view, Russian energy is too important to them.
Not sure about your conclusion. The Biden administration is running rings around Putin currently. This plan of making public all their intelligence is highly effective in exposing the Russian playbook. It's very impressive.
Not sure any people want to see body bags returning in any country. Notwithstanding Biden's agitating for war, if US troops become embroiled (unlikely) he'd have a big problem on his hands, his general poll ratings are really low and indeed there's low enough support for his handling of this situation, unsurprisingly he has higher support for his stance among Republicans, they like a good war as we know!
Depends on whether the analysis driven by a motive or a conclusion already reached. In those cases, yes, relying on ad hominems as you suggest, is acceptable, I suppose.
Observing that the leaders of the world's two largest weapons manufacturing countries both appear to be suffering the effects of old age and that this poses a risk to us all, is a matter of fact. Twist it how you wish.
Here's the trouble and I literally was saying it to someone yesterday, you don't need the support of a majority to do anything, even in a democracy. The US president generally needs about 33% of voting-age people to vote for them. When it's multi-party it's more like 25%. If you can convince another 25% that there is no such thing as truth, but also that the truth doesn't matter then you're flying even without cheating in elections.
Looks like American propaganda is working.
The Ukrainian president himself as well as many international observers speculated that the USA have recently been spreading these irrational fears of imminent invasions and have been extremely exaggerating the conflict due to the NordStream project, when asked why he believed the USA was suddenly starting to stir up the conflict the Ukrainian president said
"This is speculation, but the US might still try to undermine the Nord Stream project, the pipeline between Russia and Germany, There is a very clear economic interest there are gas producers in the US who are direct competitors with Russia."
And again 'Russia and China apologism'....this is tiresome!
I suppose if one lives in countries constantly destabilised by US nefarious direct and proxy interventions then one may have a different viewpoint than your Western-centric blindspot!
It's a few years since it was particularly funny to watch. So predictable with the slight shifting and use of weasel words. If the Russians take over the entire 2 "breakaway" regions (which are only partly occupied for now) then they'll claim it's not an invasion even as they expand their area of control. If you suggest it's an invasion they'll come back with "But YOU said the Russians were already there so how can it be an invasion?". If the Russians take the 2 regions, get an outpost/foothold to do the same again in a few years and airstrike Kiev it'll be "That's not a full invasion, a lot of the population never even heard gunfire!". It's just gone beyond a joke at this point and this site is letting itself down by allowing it to continue.
One completely fundamental difference: Biden is the elected leader of a democracy (and behaves as such) whereas Putin is a kleptomaniacal autocrat who exercises absolute power with brutality.
We should never, ever draw equivalences between the two.
Maybe that's what Putin thinks about the Germans, but wait until he squeezes the pipeline, and Germans start to suffer, you will see German politicians pointing the blame fairly and squarely at Mr Putin.
Russians don't have access to independent news. Putin has killed or intimidated those journalists brave enough to try.
When you exist in a bubble of disinformation, it is almost impossible to process events rationally. Don't expect any significant opposition to conflict if it does come to that.
It's insane to allow such concentration of power in the hands of so few. Both Putin and Biden appear to be suffering from the effects of old age. Old men (sometimes women too) past their prime, utterly corrupted by power, with all OUR fates in their hands.
I know that power and decision making is always diffused and there are many people involved in these processes, but it is utterly reckless of us --the collateral damage-- to consider such a situation normal. These protectors and guardians of the planet, so-called, are the biggest threat to security and peace going.
It will depend on where they are getting their info from, the Internet etc, is a huge source of info ( unless its blocked, and I'm pretty sure that anti Putin sites are well monitored and controlled ) But most Russians don't believe what the propaganda machine is spouting. They've learned the hard way. No, for sure they do not want any more body bags returning.
I've been impressed with the new German government in the last week. They've really stepped up after initially appearing confused and soft on Putin. The French too.
Even the clowns in the UK government (the one most compromised by Russia) are making the right noises.
Amazing how the fog created by the Kremlin mouthpieces has lifted in the last week as the facts on the ground become clear and obvious.
this was all over the German news Yesterday and should have been said weeks ago.
Baerbock is warning the public that they need to cut off energy supplies from Russia despite the economic cost to Germany including the pipeline.
If it had been said weeks ago Russian soldiers would be back at base by now and separtists would not be acting up. Baerbock and Scholz look and actually are weak but at least they are saying what needs to be said by them now.
https://www.reuters.com/business/energy/nord-stream-2-table-russia-sanctions-german-foreign-minister-2022-02-18/
As ever, the whole situation hinges on the question 'what does Putin want?'.
Amd his strategic objectives are as opaque as ever. I suspect two years of covid isolation (he has literally been living in a bunker) and the inevitable mind-warping effects of absolute power have driven him dotty.
Not sure how dotty. Maybe Dick Nixon drunkenly wandering the halls of The White House talking to portraits of dead presidents dotty. As opposed to Hitler in the Fuhrerbunker dotty.
Do you think I care about Russia and China apoligism?
I don't because by the sounds of things I don't have to explain why
My view is,there's a lot less wrong with wanting to join nato if you border Russia, than there is in keeping China at bay
I very much doubt it, if the bookies were taking bets I'd put everything I had on it.
It's pretty incredible to watch the western allies publicly and very accurately calling out the Russian pre-invasion checklist literally the day before they do it.
Putin has actually managed to put himself in a no-win situation here. Invade, and the world condemns him as the aggressor. His economy will be crippled and only that fat thug in Belarus stands with him. Back down, and he looks weak.
He's completely isolated - and is driving the other former Soviet territories in Europe further into the embrace of the Western democracies and their supranational organisations. This is a strategic miscalculation of enormous proportions.
To Russians, Ukraine is part of Russia.. the same way that Americans would look at Texas.
True, but this erases what many Mexicans think about Tejas; that it is a Northern region of Mexico temporarily under U.S. control. And the views of many born and bred Texans who would be quite content with Texas being an independent country. And the views of many Americans who would be quite happy if TX did exactly that :D These situations are always complicated with many competing claims.
Anyway, nobody should be deciding a single thing for Ukranians except the Ukranians themselves.
the Russians consider all their neighbours fair game and part of a future Russian sphere of influence in actuality
Well that is probably what is going to happen if Ukraine want to move forward.
but it’s not that simple unless the EU and US place military on the ground behind the drawn lines.
if Ukraine secede those parts there is nothing to stop Russia taking more of the country unless Ukraine have back up.
Absolute nonsense, Russia has already invaded Ukraine a few years ago, they are already in Ukraine. The West have been saying in the last few months that they are going to now move in and take over the whole country, it's imminent apparently.
It is you and the others who have moved the goal posts, you are now trying to say they are not going to invade Ukraine, just the pro Russian territory of Donbas.
What evidence do you have of these "several" false flag attacks that have occurred.
And a small minority of a minority want to be Russian ,
Canada
Who's this 'we'?
I'm well aware of who and what Putin is thanks.
As for China, in fairness you didn't disappoint, you answered precisely as I expected...
Imagine soviet union expanding as far west as the Baltic states with missiles pointing towards every major European city and millions of troops along the european border.
Latest polling in Ukraine says 65% want to join NATO and 74% want to join the EU.
That's fairly lansdslidey in terms of public opinion.
https://twitter.com/lewis_goodall/status/1494738977831755784
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