Is this a thread about American foreign policy and their many, many digressions or a thread about continued Russian aggression towards a neighbour (not to mention annexation of some territory)? We're all well aware of the American Government meddling in affairs elsewhere, but it seems that some are doing their absolute best to ignore the fact that this thread is about the escalating tensions between Ukraine and Russia over Ukraine, a sovereign nation no less, making decisions for itself.
The usual response when you dont have a proper answer
whataboutism
The technique or practice of responding to an accusation or difficult question by making a counter-accusation or raising a different issue.
If the US had nothing to do with Ukraine than your point has merit.
But as learned in the leaked Nuland call, this whole thing has US fingerprints over it.
Why do you think the US and UK primarily, are reacting so strongly? Is it because those 2 countries have such great commitment to rules based international order? Or perhaps it's because they already had plans for Ukraine and the current situation frustrates those plans.
The U.S. was one of the first countries to recognise and interact with Ireland as a free-state. You could say that we received their support to a degree, so to speak. Should they have ignored us and dealt solely with Britain?
So, ask any Irish person if it was the US that created the Irish Free State. The answer would be a resounding no. It was the will of the average Irish person to live independently (see our history). The US simply respected the democratic processes in Ireland and recognised us as such.
I am not going to say that the US is all wonderful. They have plenty of faults. But some want to use lazy arguments to convince people how awful the US is. The reality is far more complicated than you pretend. And the US and its moral record are not what is in question here.
The whole purpose of the debate can be distilled down to, do you agree with Russia’s right to invade Ukraine, militarily.
OK. Just hear me out, this might seem a bit mental but when one major country threatens a neighbour for little to no reason, then others are going to have something to say about it. The elected government in Ukraine has asked for diplomatic help, as they are well within their right to do so and have received it.
If they just sat by and said sweet **** all about it, how do you think that would go down? "What's that? Russia is threatening you and amassing hundreds of thousands of troops on the border and cutting off your sea links? Well, jeeeez, I'd love to help but you're on your own bud, best of luck"
Prior to independence, Dev went cap in hand to the US for money and support to enable us to become a free state
Should the US have shut the door on him?
Geopolitics is horrendously complicated
It's called the Russian army
You must be the only one who believes that
What's your point? Geopolitics is a space of competing claims, influence, alliances, subterfuge and violence. You don't want Crimea to be part of Russia despite 1.5+ million Russians living there? You're going to have to send in a substantial invasion force.
Have you considered volunteering to fight for "Ukraine"?
My point is simple. It is not as simple as US bad, other countries good.
And the intervention of the US is not always unwelcomed
The last vestiges of a fool. You don’t like what I am saying. Or perhaps, you lack the intellect to counter it. So, you use hackneyed arguments that are totally irrelevant to our discussion.
Where did I wish a war? Find me the quote? Or where did I discuss Crimea? Unlike you, I am not trying to use previous precedents to augment at best, a weak argument about the current situation.
Good psychological tactic, though. You throw an unjust accusation at me. The majority of people perusing Boards will not bother to read through my previous (or your previous posts). So, they will see your accusation. And presume that all those arguing against the invasion of Ukraine are pro-war. Despite me never wishing a war and believing that this time it will fizzle.
Your move!
Counter what? You haven't made any point other than US interventions are good and Russian ones bad?
If the US went to occupy Canada tomorrow, against the will of the people, I would be raling against this on Boards.
The country is arbitrary. Wrong is wrong. An invasion is an invasion
Anything to do with Sean Quinn, he was also into property in a big way in Kiev.
But what's about the other 1.3 million who were not allowed to vote in Crimea because only Russians and Russian military were allowed to vote
Actually, my last response was facetious. Look, Ukraine asked for diplomatic help and received it. Another thing, and I'm sure you've noticed it, the world economy is in an inflationary period. The last thing Europe, the EU in particular, needs right now is a war in Ukraine where one of it's main energy sources comes through. Not to mention the aggressor being the source of that energy. This type of thing causes widespread disruption and in the current economic state it's just amplified. Of course western nations are concerned, **** already bad as it is.
Reminds me of this recently whenever dealing with certain posters ,they are in a hole but keep digging
That made me chuckle, Gatling!
We will get the reregs soon. Or the new accounts with 5 posts. And they will rehash the same tedious arguments. Should we copy and paste our responses in anticipation?
Putin has unambiguously expressed that Russia is deeply concerned for it's security by the encroachment of NATO.
Do you wonder then, does that provide NATO with an opportunity to address those concerns and avoid war?
Putin with nuclear weapons pointed at Europe is worried about nato 🙈
NATO’s purpose is to defend the sovereignty of a nation, not to invade a country.
Providing that Ukraine is not invaded, our whole conversation is academic and Putin will experience no reproach by NATO
Really their are certain posters on here I just wouldn't bother responding to anymore. They will make all sorts of claims as if its fact, and then when anyone challenges them to provide evidence of said claims they just come back with dribble and whataboutism.
Many posters here claiming that Russia has no intentions of invading, that this is all just the US and NATO trying to stir up trouble. I actually really hope they are right. But I suspect the same posters will then wholly defend Russia in the event they do attack, and we will hear every justification for why Ukraine deserves it and they just brought it on themselves.
Very sad if its coming from Irish posters after the horific history we have had in the past with a large aggressor on our doorstep.
Ukraine has of yet not applied to join nato and has not given the go ahead for any NATO bases in their country. They are a sovereign nation and there is absolutely no justification whatsoever for Russia to attack them.
If anyone here has proof to the contry instead of speculative nonsense then post the evidence, otherwise stop posting random rubbish as fact if you cant back it up.
What are you talking about. NATO was created to provide collective security against the USSR.
Funny they never said that when soviet union expanded as far west as the Baltic states and had missiles pointing towards all major European cities and millions of troops along the European borders.
Paranoia of the kremlin
Has something changed in NATO's behaviour the last few months to prompt a sudden escalation by the Russian Government? Has NATO started moving troops into Ukraine?
It's a good question, perhaps in time the truth will out.
1949 is calling on the phone. It wants its talking point back. The whole thing needs to be studied in the context of the Cold War.
That was then. This is now. Listerine was originally invented to cure gonorrhoea. Does that mean that every person using Listerine does so to cure their gonorrhoea? The function of things can evolve.
The current (I wish that I knew how italicise) function of NATO is to protect its member states, militarily.
It's not a hypothetical scenario worthy of considering since it has less than 0% chance of ever occurring.
China and Russia are not enemies.
China doesn't invade other countries.
Both are armed nuclear powers and would not risk engaging each other militarily as it could end up going nuclear.
Your side needs to get talking points in order.
When did NATO cease becoming an anti Russian alliance?
Back tracking 🤣🤣
![Photo of [Deleted User]](https://we.vanillicon.com/v2/e050b53be62f0ae2404c620976170938.svg)
![Photo of [Deleted User]](https://we.vanillicon.com/v2/eaabbaf8a16773590ee22dd6c15f1d68.svg)
![Photo of [Deleted User]](https://wc.vanillicon.com/v2/c635d680d76ce16e490d61f21d7a1353.svg)
