@blueplanet however those nationalists don't represent everybody and a critical mass of people, particularly east of the Dnieper have said no.
Again not true ....
The Russian army stepped and encouraged a shooting match ,
So far in 8 years only 600,000 took up the offer of Free Russian passports in the region, out a population of how many
You are so tedious. If Russia takes Ukraine against the will of Ukraine, then it is stealing the car. That is the point of the discussion. Keep up, chap.
Can I speak with your supervisor please? You are not very convincing.
Critical mass would suggest majority. Now, in the case of democracy, if a majority decides and hence votes for something, that is the trajectory that is taken. I don’t know how it works in other systems, but that is democracy
Because the US had no part in the NI Negotiations? News to me, and anybody who has studied the GFA.
You have a lot of homework to do!
You are making an assumption of Russia's intentions which are not evidenced in any way.
You don't appear to understand that Ukraine is divided by language, ethnicity and culture. The eastern side is Russian, the western side Ukrainian.
Not true,
Russian speaking is not russian
What the bloody hell are you talking about.
The GFA wasn't until 1998. Ireland's independence precedes that by about 4 decades?
Ireland had to take it's medicine, and accept Finlandization in our foreign relations as to not upset Britain.
That is how Ireland maintained it's independence.
It means nothing of the sort. Consult a dictionary.
True, I don’t know if Russia will invade.
Personally, I don’t think that Russia will invade this time around. I think that it is a very ingenious ploy. They build it to a critical point. And then they will pull back for now. I mean, it will undermine the faith of the people in the West if they do not invade. They can dismiss the American intelligence reports as evidence of hysteria and war-mongering. They will wait until mid-term elections or a moment of Western instability. They will then swipe. By that stage, it will be a case of the Boy Who Cried Wolf for the US. We will be far more underprepared.
But what do I know? I am just some schmuck in county Dublin!
5% would be a minority even at 20% still a minority in a regional part of a sovereign state
So your saying that a minority should have total control of a country
A critical mass is a sufficient amount of a substance to initiate a chain reaction. Now, in democracies (don’t know how it works in Autocratic areas), a critical mass, with respect to bringing about a change is de facto a majority of people.
"the minimum size or amount of resources required to start or maintain a venture"
In the case of Crimea and Donbas, to break away from Ukraine and associate with Russia.
What blue planet is saying he doesn't know ,he doesn't know how many people in Ukraine want to rejoin Russia,
He doesn't know anything about the government or people of Ukraine
And for that to proceed legitimately in a democratic society, critical mass, in this context, will refer to a majority of people in this area (crimea and Donbas) wishing to associate with Russia.
And so they have.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-26606097
But you are extrapolating that now to the whole of Ukraine wishing to retain a very close alliance with Russian. Assumptions like that can lead to bloody wars
I don’t know, Gatling, why I bother. I have better things to do with my day. But I just find the arguments that they make so ludicrous, that they have to be challenged
There's absolutely no need to be so snide and ignorant. If you don't want to acknowledge the bankruptcy of your own argument that's fine but do try stay civil, good lad!
"NATO's march eastward"? Ridiculous.
HAs NATO invaded any countries on its "march eastward"? No it has not.
What has happened is that countries have applied to join. Can we think of any reasons why a country, perhaps a former Soviet republic for instance, might feel safer as a member of an organisation such as NATO? Clue: there's 130000 of them sitting on Ukraine's border right now.
No, no i'm not. I have posted that what i think will happen, is that most of E Ukraine will break away, like South Ossetia from Georgia.
I am sorry. I don’t mean to be snide. It cheapens a much deeper argument that I am trying to make. I did hesitate before posting
My argument is that if (and I do use the subjective tense there) Russia invades, then that violates the principles of a country to exist freely. If we can all invade as we wish, then the sovereignty of any country can be breached. And we will never live in peace. And if only a select few counties can invade, then that violates basic tenets of philosophy. In order for us to live in an equal society, freedom must be restricted. If I am free to do whatever I want, I can kill somebody. But then that person experiences the ultimate deprivation of liberty. In order to co-exist peacefully, we all must accept restrictions, Russia included.
In order for the society to be enlightened, we need public freedom to state our beliefs. I am delighted to have the debate with you. I am trying to see things from your point. Please have the same courtesy towards my view-point
Even if they are only an absolute minority
In the same way, that Ireland will likely at some point in our history have a referendum for united Ireland, why cannot Ukraine then have a referendum to decide to split. However, it is paramount that this is a very tightly run and fair referendum. It has to truly be the rule of the people. Otherwise, it is not democracy
why must the matter be forced if it will happen naturally?
Alright, so I'm now in my early 30's and I've had my ups and downs with the mates around me. The big fella (a bit of a Begbie) is still as mad as ever and while I was fit to put up with it when I was younger I find myself drifting away from that friendship to more stable and mutual friendships. I'm well within my right to do so, it's probably better for me to distance myself from the big fella since he's just as volatile now as he was 15 years ago.
Chances are he's going to get proper pissed off at me, my actions would be like "a red rag to a bull" and I'd know full well it is, but in the grand scheme it's the right choice for me. Does that mean he can just go ahead and threaten me and maybe even glass me in the face?
Break away with help from Kremlins little green men
Wagner group,night wolves,cossacks,russian orthodox army and unmarked spetznas,yes we know that.
Why do you think Putin wants the rest
It's happening now in E Ukraine and it's already happened in Crimea. People don't have to wait until a hostile government decides when it's OK for them to vote now.
Think it's likely the Russians leave the border in the next few days. Some drills have already ended and disbanded.
Ukraine said there may be some flexibility on not joining NATO.
Then later they backtracked. Makes me think they will not join NATO but the yanks got onto them to not announce it or else it'll show Russia won and got what they wanted.
If the government is so terrible, then they can follow the cycle of democracy and vote for an alternative party in the next election. I mean, the next election for the Verkhovna Rada (the Ukraine Parliament) is in 2023. Not such a long time? And if things are truly dire, the people of Ukraine can choose to dissolve it before then
Oh ok, and Kosovo didn't break away without help from US and NATO?
Taiwan didn't break away without help from the US?
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