Divide and conquer.People are too busy fighting with each other to notice the bigger threats
From an article dated 2016
July 23, 2016, 9:18 AM EDT / Updated July 23, 2016, 9:18 AM EDT
By Mansur Mirovalev
MOSCOW — Britain’s decision to leave the European Union is just the beginning, if some in the Kremlin have their way.
Northern Irish, Scottish, Basque, Catalan and Italian secessionists have been invited to Moscow for a conference, partly funded by Russia, planned for August. They will mingle with Texan, Californian, Puerto-Rican and Hawaiian wannabe-separatists from all over the world, the conference organizer says.
“Our goal is to consolidate efforts based on international legal standards [and] to achieve the very democracy the European Union and the United States talk about, but [the democracy] in its true meaning,” Alexander Ionov, head of the Anti-Globalist Movement of Russia, which is organizing the event, told NBC News.
Georgia , Ukraine , Serbia ,Moldova all have separatists directly sponsored by the Kremlin .
Moldova has repeatedly asked Russia to remove it's troops from it's Sovereign state yet Russia refuses to remove it's troops
Your versus you’re. You should look up the difference. It looks sloppy. (‘ in the English language refers to the omission of part of a word (in this case are) or the possession of a noun by the previous noun (e.g. John’s bike-> as in the bike of John). Your refers to the possessive determiner and would be the appropriate choice in your above post
Whether or not the person has stolen the car is arbitrary. Are they wrong to say that stealing the car is bad? Sure they stole the car. Nobody will justify that. However, does that absolve the other party of any censure or culpability if they steal another independent third-parties car? Two wrongs don’t make a right. Because we end up falling down a slippery morality slope, if everybody can use past moral precedent to justify future behaviours. Where does it end? Your friend goes on to steal the car? And then does that person steal another car? And another? And another? That is not society. That is chaos
but, but Iraq... WMD's... GWB... blahblah
I'm sure @BurgerFace is going to cream themselves at something like this....
so appease Russia at all times, even though they will never do similar, right, gotcha
You're logic is poor.
In your example the somebody that robbed your car, is now telling someone else that it's wrong to rob a car.
Its amusing that Burger argues that Russia's positioning of 170,000 troops on Ukraines border is random
It implies that the rest of us that aren't putin/communist/shinner bots are eejits
Did we get the list of big bad weapons the Russians were planning to park in Ukraine at all ?????
And my comment about stealing a car? If somebody takes my car, can I steal another person’s car Is that justified?
I suggest you read some of Kant, specifically the Critique of Pure reason. You will understand the fallacy to your argument.
But you are not here to debate or reason. You are here with a questionnable agenda. Nothing I, or anybody else can say to you will change your mind. The art of debate is lost on some. I could argue that the sky is blue. And yet, some would just parrot over and over, but the sky is green. Exhausting!
certain people are attracted to the notion of authoritarian figures. They have a romanticised notion of one voice and no dissent. They imagine that cohesion will follow. There will be a benevolent leader, driving the country forward. Problem is that absolute power corrupts. That one person leading the country will set their agenda to suit their needs. Democracy is the worst of all systems if you exclude the rest.
So many people consistently self-sabotage. The very people who are getting an education for their kids, attending a hospital, being allowed to bitch about the government on Boards, feed their family and travel freely will extol the virtues of a dictatorship.
2008, doesn't seem like ancient history.
https://www.smh.com.au/world/putin-calls-kosovo-independence-terrible-precedent-20080223-gds2d5.html
@BluePlanet I remember when NATO unilaterally bombed Serbia, then later recognized the independence of "Kosovo", a small break away region.
Did they just randomly decide to bomb them or was there something else going on ....????
Besides isn't putin currently in the middle of trying to destabilise the situation in Serbia
It goes on a lot here, it's bizarre. It's like they've personified a country based on it's entire history. It's like different administrations just don't exist.
"George Bush invaded Iraq, so how can Biden demand that Russia not invade Ukraine? The perceived hypocrisy really annoys me!"
It seems that's all they are really here for, to bash a particular opposing "country" because they've personified it through selective history and now hate it. Also the notion of some "country" being hypocritical seems to annoy them much more than any potential war or casualties or suffering. I've often noticed some only selectively "mourn" the deaths or suffering of people inflicted by the country they hate, but don't seem to bothered by deaths or suffering inflicted by opposing countries. It goes on a lot in these types of threads.
My shower broke down this morning. Damn Americans. It’s their fault. It was sold to me by a company that does most of its trade with America. America should have made tougher regulations to prevent them manufacturing and selling me crappy equipment. I had to work overtime last week. Damn Americans! It’s their fault, promoting the capitalist environment. My partner upset me by forgetting Valentine’s. Damn Americans! It’s their fault! They peddled an arbitrary commercial holiday. If it wasn’t for them it wouldn’t exist and I wouldn’t be upset! Damn America indeed
It's all America's fault 🤣👎
I have sympathy for the Ukrainian people who are stuck in the middle of this tug-of-war. But not the leadership who brought their nation to this point in history.
You cannot expect Russia to just sit back forever, and accept US domination in their back yard.
The Russians take "not one inch eastward" as their rightful justification for protecting their region. America are not a force for good in the world, so I don't really see why anyone would be pushing for greater US interference in Eastern Europe.
If you want peace in your region, a good rule of thumb is to get rid of the yanks. That's an excellent starting point pretty much anywhere in the world. Their foreign interventions have been an unmitigated disaster for many decades now. Putin is trying his best to play his part in booting them out the door, but the big fat glutinous yanks are not the easiest bunch to shift.... we all need to play our part in telling them to get lost, and mind their own business.
Sorry if I laid it on a bit thick there, with some of you yank ar$e lickers and BidenBots. 🤣
I remember when the Vikings came to Ireland and plundered us. Terrible times. And to think that Denmark, Sweden have the audacity to act as peace-keepers.
Your arguments are circular and irrelevant. At some point, we have to draw a line in the sand. That was then and this is now.
If somebody robs my car, I will be sure to rob somebody else’s car, in a blameless fashion, based on your logic
I remember when NATO unilaterally bombed Serbia, then later recognized the independence of "Kosovo", a small break away region.
That undermined rules based international order and has set the precedent for Georgia and Ukraine.
Yeah I saw that but she's been on that slippery slope for quite a while.
Sorry but that's a bit of a bad strawman. There's a lot of mental gymnastics going on here I've noticed.
Russia has invaded Georgia and Ukraine (by proxy). Moscow has demonstrated beyond any doubt it has aggressive designs for Ukraine, no one can deny that. However if Ukraine joins NATO then it will become much more difficult for Putin to implement those aggressive designs on the country. Therefore he is threatening to invade Ukraine, a sovereign nation (in irony you can't invent). Because it wants to join a defensive pact that has never attacked Russia.
It's amazing to see individuals not just avoid criticising Putin over this but using all sorts of dodgy reasoning to actually validate it.
Sure they can Burgerface, I've never said that they could not move their military anywhere they want, but everything is time and context, and when it comes to Russia, and recent history, it's not just the same is it? And when that movement comes with a list of demands....No Burgerface, its not the same thing at all. As for what its got to do with me? This is a free Country, its not Russia , I have an opinion, and I'll express it any way I like, I don't need your permission Comrade. Now I ask you the same question, what's it got to do with you? And none of YOUR blabbing....
Proclaim to be Irish , enjoy freedom and independence , democracy , freedom of speech ,
Then declare Ukraine or other Sovereign states have not the right to the same freedoms and choices,
It's like they want the Ukrainians to be punished for wanting away from Russia
"Deserves it", those are your own words not his.
Imagine if Dev had joined a military alliance with Germany. Do you think Britain would have stood by and let Germany use Irish ports?
What you are saying is that Ukraine deserves it.
What an awful perspective.
spoken like a true Russian
gtfo of it ffs
they expressed interest in joining NATO in the 90's (along with the EU).
They made formal notification of intent to join in 2002.
Everyone on the Russian side like to gloss over these facts and try to make out this is just a new development pushed by the US.
What nations do you think are doing it better than the West?
I don't buy the west as being the "better devil". I think there is plenty of evidence to show they are dragging the world into a bad place. You only have to look at how America's society is being pulled apart at the seams, to see that their vision of the future is not working. Yet we are too arrogant to see our own faults in the west.
I do think Putin has some altruistic goals for his own country and the wider region. But he obviously has to wade through an ocean of corruption to get anything done in the post soviet Russia and wider a field. As a result, he is far from squeaky clean himself. He does recognize the real face of the west, however, which gives him a unique vantage point as an outsider looking in. I think he learns from western mistakes, probably better than any other leader around currently.
I wouldn't call it stupid at all. Ukraine has been appeasing Moscow long before this and got nothing in return except for Kremlin-backed klepocrats and a stagnant economy. For the last decade they've been the constant target of highly aggressive interference. Putin has always wanted control of Kiev which is a secret to no one and those actions have naturally driven the Ukrainians to want join NATO. Moscow is now using that as a "pretext" to threaten the country with invasion, using potential NATO membership as a twisted validation of that invasion
TLDR - Constantly try to control country, country seeks to join defensive pact, threaten invasion because country is seeking to join the pact.
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