That's it, apparently. Has to be more to it, i'd say. Travelling doesn't suggest career to me. Unless it's career based, I can't understand it. Because if it's just travelling...you have the whole of your life to do that. You have ten years to play with Tipp, if you're lucky. Must be a career based decision.
Maybe he has never had a break from hurling.
He's not on the panel because he's going travelling is that right?
Watched Bryan O'Mara last night, for UL. Tipp is missing out on some talent.
The plusses and minuses of the passing your way out of defence style were very evident for ballygunner in the club final, when they could play through the lines and send in ball to Dessie Hutchinson from the midfield or Ballyhale 65 he was unstoppable, however they also were turned over several times in their own half back line trying to play it out.
Changing style will require changes in personnel too. Seamus Kennedy can be quite dopey when passing the ball at the back, we'll need midfielders that get on the ball a lot more, I think Paddy Cadell will suit this style.
Currently Ronan, Cathal Barret and Barry Heffernan are certain starters. The other three defenders will depend on a few things.
Dan McCormack, Jason Forde, and Jake Morris will definitely start, almost certainly John McGrath also, but that's only 7 out of 14 outfield players.
Would be great to have both but we rarely look comfortable playing out of defense. Also not too many clubs in Tipp play that short game , so it’s a bit alien to a lot of players. The Waterford style short puck out is another option , where the keeper gets to hit it again 30 yards from his goal , but it takes a mobile keeper. The other options are to drive it a hundred yards down the field and get the players to fight a lot harder for it , worked for kilkenny and limerick for years
I think we need to have both a short and long game. If you have only a long, direct game you are too predictable and easy to defend against. The opposition can just leave the centre back sit deep and pick up breaking ball all day. The opposition half back line can afford to drop back that bit further also compressing the space for our inside line.
In the first half v Limerick last year, we had a lovely mix of both. We were finding Forde dropping deep with short balls which he was converting and we were also playing long balls to great effect when Limerick half back line had to follow their men out the field. Probably the only period in the last few years that Limerick were really at sixes and sevens.
I'd be confident of James Quigley playing well at full back.
The oul legs. Noel never had the legs for intercounty. Didn't need them. That's not his type of game. Speed? They posted the same stuff about Jason Forde and John McGrath. Plenty of fast lads around inter county who don't do much, except run down blind alleys. Didn't do much for Cork in the last year's final. All the top players have a lot more going for them than speed. Touch and accuracy being number one and two - accurate in the pass, shot, tackle, and hand pass. If we're leaning towards a passing game - short and long mix - won't be better boy that Noel. Limerick often uses a midfielder, if not both, to get back to pick up Hannon's man. You also have Hegarty and Morrissey coming back to plug gaps. Hannon doesn't have to mark much. This allows him to play the quarterback role. Noel has been doing that at times - but I'd expect more of a role like that than ever before for Noel or someone else. Could be Ronan. I think they tried Dan in that role against Laois. It was an atrocious night but Dan is a specialist in getting ball, not feeding ball. Dan's passing did not go well that night. That's Noel's game.
My fear with Noel is his legs seem to be gone for intercounty. Could still offer something in closing stages when games tend to be a bit more loose. Think John would be best in half forward line. Agree on Paddy Cadell (who was solid when he came on on Sunday) and particularly Brian McGrath. Full back is one area we do need to solve.
I’d lean towards agreeing with you there
The problem though against coming up against short-game teams is if their half-back line are happy to shoot from their own half/inside their 65m line then it’s trouble
No problem - I still think John McGrath, Noel McGrath (just back from honeymoon), and Bubbles will start. Callanan has a chance too. There's a big difference when Ronan starts rather than coming on for the last 20 mins. I reckon there's a few chapters to come in the career of Bonner Maher too - although most seem to have forgotten he is on the panel. I'd expect Brian McGrath and Cadell to start this year.
People are listening to Davy and Donal og and Derek McGrath too much.
the game is still built around the same age old principles strength stamina speed and skill
since 2014 the all Ireland winner has been the team with the best players not system
Limerick will win this year if they play to any form and they could do with any system they want.
I don’t believe we have the players to play that style successfully. Personally I’d be glad if we don’t. What I’ve seen of Wexford so far , it looks like Darraghs undoing all Davy’s nonsense of fooling around with the ball in their own half . Let’s see how it develops with Tipp
It's not copying Limerick. It's adapting to a modern play style. I would say that Limerick would be good to emulate to an extent. It's the percentage play the majority of the time (far better than belting long balls down and hoping to win a 50/50).
You're spot on though that there's two things hugely important about playing a short game - 1) Players are actually good on the ball and incredibly fast decision makers and 2) There's a plan of action once the ball reaches the first back from the goalkeeper
This passing out of defense style is just copying limerick . By the time we perfect it , the game will have moved on . We tried running the ball out last year against limerick and conceded 1-5 , should have been 2-6 . You could spend months working on that style and.perfecting it and then the opposition stick with 6 forwards and the plan is useless and you have to go back to traditional. The reason it works so well for limerick is because they have 6 competent backs and 6 forwards who can win the long puck outs so most opposition let them go short
Apologies for my lack of clarity..was trying to say in my opinion tipp finished the game with the majority of their championship team on the field..most of the big guns came on to finish out the game..
Thinking back on yesterday there was a bit of a change in our style, we carried the ball forward a bit further than under Sheedy. For years we had Noel dropping as an out ball receiver and then distributor from roughly left half back area, then last year it was Ronan in roughly the same area sending long ball to the full forward line.
Now if we want to carry the ball further forward like Barry Heffernan did for two great scores we need midfielders who'll get on the ball more. Previously Michael Breen suited the hard running into space model getting onto well distributed ball and scoring. Now I think he needs to go to wing forward, may be his best position, has a massive engine, he looks well good enough to be a modern wing forward up and down the field.
It would be nice to see what Cadell and Ger Browne could do in midfield, might get a nice balance. Alan Flynn is hard to figure, he's around the team and panel a while now without nailing down a spot. Could wing or corner back be his best position?
I hope yesterday proved that Ronan needs to be centre back, what a man when the chips are down. Impossible to say about full back from yesterday, The modern full back is such a demanding position, demanding tremendous athleticism along with all the other attributes.
Where is Barry Heffernan of most value to us, he's really becoming another cornerstone of the team. Himself and Barrett and Ronan are ones we will build our defence around. Be great if Brian McGrath could bring his club form to the team.
Sorry, but I have no idea what that means.
You're not sure what players Tipp were missing. Then you say you don't bet. Then you say Tipp finished the game with a team that makes no difference to a full strength side? What? The big guns all came on? Then you say Noel McGrath and a few others were missing?
I'm completely lost.
Anyway, Tipp were missing just as many players as Kilkenny.
Not sure about tipp missing many players..not a betting man but I think the team tipp finished game with was near as makes no difference full strength..big guns all came on as subs..noel McGrath and a couple others perhaps
Breen is a player I'd hate to see sitting on the bench because he has so many great attributes but games can pass him by. Some days excellent the next invisible. Could play anywhere really, wing back could be an option but I think he'd add a bit of spice to the attack.
It's hard to be certain though, one instance which looked thrown pass on the telly, ref gave the free but on another TV angle they showed it again and it was a good pass and should not have been a free.
I'd wonder if Breen could do with a new position to freshen things up for him?
And as discussed Denis doesn't have the pace to go to the wings and collect ball. But would Breen? Might be a worth a try. He certainly won't lack pyshicality in there either.
Right in front of the umpire too.
I'm not sure how important it is. A good morale boost, perhaps?
I think KK showed fight and character. But given Cody's length of time in charge and how long he has been building with players. Given Tipp are starting out with a new inter county management and a new style of playing, this is a game KK should be winning. I know KK were missing the Ballyhale contingent but Tipp were missing many players too that will be starters come championship. KK should have won that game yesterday.
Well both teams were fairly poor for most of the game, I said it's the worst kilkenny team I've seen in 20 years, you may not agree but that's just my opinion.
It's interesting how you and others can find "lots of positives" in this "important win" while simultaneously dismissing KK as being "really poor"? Isn't it "early in the season" for Kilkenny too? Didn't Kilkenny show "a lot of character" too by clawing back the lead more than once? Tipp won by just one point despite Kilkenny's shocking shooting, maybe Tipp are really poor too?
Wasn't impressed yesterday but lots to work on and I suspect more changes to come. I felt as if Kilkenny played better but their woeful shooting really cost them. We hurled for short periods and it was enough. It's good to see CB trying out some lads but chances aren't being grabbed. With Cadell, Ronan, Bubbles, Bonnar and 3 McGraths there will be plenty of changes come the Championship. If we are going to play short passes with more bodies in the half back line then we will seriously need to improve the delivery into the forwards which were 50/50 balls, often pucking it towards an isolated forward in a 2 on 1. When we did get decent supply into the full forwards, KK and Huw Lawlor cleaned up, similar to what happened against Laois. Callanan and Maher aren't quick enough to play the role that is being asked and I do worry that we are playing a game to try and catch Limerick instead of playing to our strengths.
Right now, I don't think we will see much of Croke Park in the summer.
Nice to get a win against kk in a tight match. Was an important win and I thought the players showed alot of character as the game went on. Yeah we didn't play particularly well and looked quite nervous but that's to be expected early in the season.
We had to adjust our game plan, we don't have the ball winners to be playing the long ball. It's going to take time, won't happen overnight. There was alot of passing for passing sake early on, but I think the players will figure this out as they go along. Also at times we worked hard playing it out from the back but then launched high 50/50 balls into forwards who were isolated, that just defeats the purpose, the idea should be to work the ball to a player around the middle who then plays low diagonal ball into the forwards.
Thought Morgan and Quirke were very good, jury still out on Quigley and the midfield pairing. I think Cadell is worth a shot here and move Breen onto the 40. Kehoe can't seem to bring his best stuff for tipp and Browne might be more of a midfielder. Denis Maher probably a bit slow and one dimensional for this level.
Lots of positives to take on though. Definitely a work in progress but going in the right direction.
Thought KK were really poor, looks like their worst team for 20 years, most of those lads ain't making the panel 10 years ago. No doubt Cody will keep them somewhat competitive in Leinster at least.
This throwing the ball is getting out of hand, pardon the pun.
I'd have some hope in that the madness of Dan McCormack taking long range frees ended today. So, that suggests management can learn from mistakes.
Now, let's see how long they persist with Denis Maher as a starter - I'd like to see him as an impact sub - and as a man who comes on to the smallest defender and takes him to the edge of the square. Regardless of who is in full forward, Denis doesn't always have to be the full forward on the fullback. It's a bit too obvious. If that means two full forwards - so be it. Management needs to get their thinking caps on here. Use his strengths on someone's weakness.
I'd like to see Craig Morgan play as the loose man in defence. He has the hurling, he has the ability to make the short and long pass. But he will get out muscled at this level. So, why stick him in a corner?
Cadell has to start the rest of the games.
We know what Ronan brings to the table, no panic in starting him yet for me. He settles the whole team.
Would like to see Ger Browne in full flow on a dry day. But he hasn't set the world a light yet. Has his club form warranted this chance? Is Bonnar hoping he plays himself into confidence? Hope it works out.
Midfield must be a major focus. Breen and Flynn won't work. Flynn is not a starter for me: very important squad player who can cover A LOT of ground - a great sub to have. If Quirke, Kennedy and Ronan can nail down the half wing spots. I think Cadell and McCormack might be worth looking at, at midfield. I think Brian McGrath can really add something to these positions too. The loss of Bryan o'Mara and Connolly (a natural out-and-out midfielder - the best in the club championship this year) can't possibly be understated.
I hope Barry Hogan gets his games soon.
I'd like to see Robert Byrne, Brian McGrath, and Eoghan Connolly playing in the half-back line soon. The same two teams in a row? Okay. But let's see what we have too.
Just so many light players. Like what have the likes of Morgan and the other young fellas been doing in the gym. There's some green shoots but would anyone give em a chance with the temperature turned up and Limerick turning the screw in the white heat of munster championship
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