Quote from Macron this weekend:
"The geopolitical objective of Russia today is clearly not Ukraine, but to clarify the rules of cohabitation with NATO and the EU"
Off-topic.
He's partly correct. The current cycle of crisis which began around 2014, was intimately related to Putin spazzing out at Ukraine signing articles of association with the EU.
Now, who's fault is that and what exactly can the west and indeed Ukraine do to sate Putin's paranoia on this front? Are Former eastern bloc countries now meant to go on bended knee to Moscow from here on out because Putin is unhappy that Russia is blatantly a second rate economy and partner?
Unacceptable. And as someone who believes in the peace and economic dividends that the European project brings, Putin should be told a firm no, if he thinks we in the west will close the door to countries like Ukraine looking towards the EU.
Not really. This whole circus is a result of expansionist US foreign policy, not just content with hand picking their proxies as leaders in Ukraine with a view to 'open up markets', but also to expand their pet NATO, an anti-russia alliance and arms trading club, because their real prize is probably to diminish Russia militarily, politically and physically expel them from territory Russia considers theirs..
The treatment of Cuba provides a historical context of US treatment of the enemies of it's foreign policy goals.
Cuba and your schooboy take on aMericAn ImpERialIsm is wildly off-topic. Stop trying to trash the thread.
pretty much Putin
Hungary 66 years ago
Czechoslovakia 54 years ago
DDR, ceased to exist over 30 years ago
do try to stay on topic.
So the reality here, that the US is the foremost and loudest advocate of the Russia as aggressors narrative, are we to believe this is in no way connected to they being the foremost imperialist power, military power and global hegemon, no way connected that they are trying to expand NATO into Ukraine and Georgia?
It's plain to see that the alleged russian troops on their border with Ukraine, is the result of US/NATO pursing an expansionist policy that Russia is threatened by. Otherwise the US and their British lackey's, wouldn't be quite so loud, i mean Ukraine isn't in fact, a NATO member.
Russia has not made threatening statements towards NATO members.
NATO is not tasked with 'keeping the peace' between former soviet entities.
BluePlanet was the goon that brought up the hypothetical a European anti-NATO alliance post WW2. I was helping him with his history lessons.
The Warsaw Pact has f*ckall relevance to the thread, as does Cuba, Iran, Yemen, Palestine, the price of turnips, or the Denver Broncos Superbowl record. I just wish you lot would stay on topic.
You don't though because the more you stay on topic, the more obvious it is to everyone reading you're Putin and coercion apologists.
And yet none of the above want to be Russian
@BluePlanet Russia has not made threatening statements towards NATO members.
😂😂😂🤣🤣🤣😂😂🤣🤣
Good one
Russia putting troops along their border with Ukraine frustrates US and NATO foreign policy goals.
This is the reason Washington is so loud. It isn't because of 'Rules based order', or respecting sovereignty, we all know that Washington doesn't give a fig about that stuff and only uses such phrases for propaganda purposes.
Sure the ordinary people are the ones most affected by embargo's,,,in any Country. But would these same embargo's still be in place if free and fair elections were allowed? I doubt it very much,,,,,,,,Cuba is ruled by a one party no opposition tolerated regime. Dissidents are routinely jailed on the flimbyiest of charges. The greatest cause of suffering for the cuban people is not the effects of the emgargo's but the communist doctrine itself.
Maybe you should ask Georgia,Eastern Ukraine and Crimea.
And while your at it,Colonel General Leonid Ivashov
And EU commisioner Stefan Fule
@BluePlanet Russia putting troops along their border with Ukraine frustrates US and NATO foreign policy goals.
So there is Russian troops on Ukraines border???
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
Ukraine isn't a NATO member.
Putin stated exactly what i brought up earlier.
If NATO tomorro, admits Ukraine as a member, they would then immediately call Article 4 and 5 of the NATO charter and start war with Russia.
Maybe you didn't read your own article?
And if Ukraine joined Nato, then Nato would be obliged to reconquer Crimea under its Article V mutual defence clause, Putin told French media after meeting Macron in Moscow
Precisely what i posted here:
https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118598605/#Comment_118598605
@BluePlanet If NATO tomorro, admits Ukraine as a member, they would then immediately call Article 4 and 5 of the NATO charter and start war with Russia,
That would only happen if Russia attacked ukraine as a Nato member.
First
So you think NATO would allow a country to enter the alliance, when that country doesn't control all their land area, and apparently are occupied by a foreign military. I think you are dreaming.
So all that's preventing an all-out world war is Ukraine? Is the Ukrainian military so mighty that NATO feel like they'd have no chance against Russia without them? Or do NATO think if they went it alone then Ukraine wouldn't help them?
Or are you just talking bullshit hypotheticals because the reality right now doesn't reflect the nonsense you're posting?
No country is allowed into NATO that is in a current wartime scenario, until that has been resolved, to counter this very argument.
The only ones who are, are countries who have been given previous fast track declaration (Finland, Sweden, Switzerland all being examples).
Ukraine and Russia have been told Ukraine would have to go the normal route, if they so please, which would mean:
-sorting out the war with Russia
-sorting out their economy
before even consideration of membership
🤣
More Nostradamus posting. Leaving aside the hard fact that even according to NATO civil servants have stated Ukraine is a long way off membership and hasn't even applied, decisions on Article 4 invocations are made by consensus and the assent of all members, there is no automatic right to have your article 4 invocation acted upon. It only triggers a consultative process. Turkey has invoked it 4 times in recent years over Iraq with little success. Baltic states in 2014 also.
As for Article 5, an attack on a member, you're damn right, if Russia attacked any NATO member hellfire would rain down on them. It's an article that certainly gives the little old paranoid spook pause for thought. Article 5 is the cornerstone of the treaty (and all similar collective security agreements have a similar clause).
France is most certainly a NATO member and if you aren't prepared to concede the words "Do you want France to fight with Russia? ", aren't threatening, you're even more of a Putin shoeshine boy than previously thought.
You obviously are not following the conversation.
I spelled out what may happen if Ukraine became a NATO member tomorrow: https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118598605/#Comment_118598605
Putin apparently said pretty much the exact thing to Macron.
Some posters here interpreted that to mean Putin is threatening war, but infact it's actually NATO threatening war.
The alleged troops? But there's a reason for them?
I think you're getting a little confused with your talking points comrade.
Oh, it's what may happen now. That's a quick walk-back of your previous Nostradamous take.
You don't even know how Article 4 or the Nato consultative process pertaining to Article 4 functions.
You're talking sh*t to turn Putin's threat towards France on its head. Shoeshine boy. You've got to be embarassed.
Let me explain it to you again.
Russia invaded Chechnya in 1999,Putins false flag and apartment bombings.
Russia invaded Georgia in 2008 using excersise Caucasus 2008 as cover
Russia invaded eastern Ukraine in 2013 using hybrid warfare with his private armies,Wagner group,night wolves,Cossacks and Russian orthodox army.
Russia invaded Crimea in 2014 holding a false referendum and killed Taters that opposed.
Now Russia have 100000+ troops surrounding Ukraine,and you say its NATO threatening war?
Are we living on the same planet?
BluePlanet would need to smell the gunpowder himself in Rostov and Brest to admit that the Russian troops aren't alleged. But he rides conspiracy theories about Nato / the US / whoever else you're having all the way to the end of the rainbow.
He's a shoeshine boy. Acts edgy, but his birdbox is as occupied by little green men as Donetsk is.
Would you please stop calling me names?
I have not personalized the discussion in any way. I don't call you names and I try to remain respectful.
You called the Russian troops on the Ukraine frontier 'alleged'.
Sorry not sorry: tinfoil hatted loon feels like the only possible way to put things.
You don't want to be called a conspiracy theorist, yet you saddle up and ride whatever conspiracy theory meets your eyeballs to the end of the rainbow.
I never said they were joining nato ,
But if they are already under occupation putin knows they cannot join nato , but yet nato is his excuse to invade ,
Even though putin knows ukraine isn't joining nato
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