Food for thought alright
There are many solutions to tackle the SUV problem, which will need bold action from policymakers. These solutions – taxation, education and exclusion – have parallels with the successful campaign against cigarette smoking.
Whoever came up with that, I’m embarrassed for them
Some motorists just love nailing themselves to the cross.
i'm fairly certain it's illegal to drive while undergoing crucifixion, too.
is storing a car outside a house 'using' that space? or is it preventing it from use; i.e. does storage of an object count as use of that object?
what about someone who has also paid property tax needs to use the road? by paying property tax, it's not as if you've paid specifically for the road outside your house. can you limit other taxpayer's use of that same space? and regardless, it's public property regardless of whether you're a taxpayer or not, that should not determine access to public space.
Yes indeed, we allow it, or put another way it's the way we have decided to live.
I think it does matter what happened when the estate was built and though the houses may have changed hands several times the space both green and parking was always part of the deal.
The buyers had a reasonable expectation that they could park their cars and their kids could play on the green.
Your illustration shows a terraced type development and some newer estates are built in that format.
If you buy in one of them and you accept that you have no right to park that is your decision and you have no right to clog the place up.
When did we decide to give free storage for one particular type of private property? I might have missed the public consultation on that.
I think in most estates if people have an off road space they use it and if there is a second car they park outside their house.
After that the rest of the spaces are first come first served.
It could be a visitor or a tradesman working in a house etc.
This seems to work pretty well most of the time.
I'm not saying they "own" the road but if it was part of the estate it was effectively paid for by the buyers of the houses.
I'm lucky, it's on street parling in my area and most use as much of the footpath as possible so the road is left free and does not inconvieniance anyone.
a well known expert on Irish commuting problems then, my mistake….!
Doesn't inconvenience anyone
Pub owners effectively bought and paid for the rights to sell to smoking customers, but we recognised that wasn't a good thing so we changed those rules. It doesn't really matter what was assumed by buyers in the past. We could give people 3 or 6 months notice to find other storage for their private property.
A well known expert on standing up to those who use sneering as a tactic to protect their own privileges .
As far back as the 70's An Foras Forbartha and the Dept of Environment and Local Government produced gudelines and standards for the construction of housing estates including parking and roads.
These were adopted in development plans by all local councils following public consultation.
I don't see that as a very good comparison but if you want to make it let's examine the effect on people.
People who used to smoke in pubs were discommoded but the pubs were still open and many had smoking areas so people could still enjoy a visit to the pub. You are proposing completely removing an amenity from householders.
I think it does matter what people bought into in buying a house in an estate. They were effectively paying for the whole package, house garden, parking green etc.
If you said to all residents of housing estates that they couldn't park on the road outside their houses where would they put their cars?
There is usually a max of two car spaces in front of an average house so what happens to a visitors car?
That could be someone staying at the house, someone working on the house, a carer etc.
I think your proposal is unworkable and unenforceable with very little chance of being adopted.
That's not to say that we couldn't improve the standards and design of estates.
I'm conscious of the fact that we have strayed quite a bit from discussing SUVs but they do need to park so maybe we are ok.
Yes we have strayed from the SUV discussion.....that is because the SUV discussion is basically an anti car discussion. Most SUV's bought by Irish consumer's are no bigger than standard family saloons. Yes there is some larger ones around but people buying these would be buying marquees brands like 5/7 series BMW's, A6 and above Audi's, and other larger trophy card.
Dacia have launched a new SUV. It's up to a 7 seater with a base price of 23k. It will really drive on the population these types of cars. Fairly basic 1L petrol engine with a hybrid in the pipeline.
you would hardly get a Nissan Micra for that.
My proposal is the exact opposite of ‘completely removing the amenity from the community’. The amenity HAS been completely removed from the community and is being used by a select group for storage of their private property. This proposal will give the amenity back to the community, and make it available for people who are driving on the road, for kids who are playing on the road, for those who are cycling on the road - basically what the road was originally for, instead of being used as a private storage area.
You’d be amazed how creative people can be about finding space to park when their free, public space is taken away. You’ll find that all those car wrecks that are sitting about in driveways and gardens going nowhere will suddenly get sent to the scrapyard. You’ll find that the neighbours who have no car or space for an extra car will have a nice little side earner renting out their space to others. You’ll find that local spaces will be repurposed as paid parking, so people can pay for their storage space instead of taking the community amenity space.
What happens to the visitor or the carer? Well, maybe just like in the rest of the world, people have to make arrangements for their parking and not use public space for free? Maybe they need to move their own vehicle elsewhere for the duration? Maybe the visitor needs to park at the local community paid (shock horror) parking and walk (shock horror) for a few minutes to their destination? Maybe all those 18 and 19 year olds will be less likely to get a car gifted from mummy and daddy when mummy and daddy find they have to find their own space to store it? Maybe the young working adults in the house will be less likely to buy their own cars when they find they have to fund their own space to store it? Maybe they’ll rely more on car sharing, taxis, occasional car rental, and (shock horror) public transport?
Maybe, just maybe, we don’t need to build our society around everyone having a couple of tons on metal outside the door, sitting unused for 90+% of the time, being 80% empty for most of its hours of use, and taking 98% of the power consumption going into moving the item itself, not the occupants?
+1 Agree
there's a few responses that the 'anti-SUV' side are simply anti-car, when (at least some of us) have clearly stated why we don't like SUVs. most of us drive cars.
my father in law drives a boat of a 7 series, it's essentially a limousine; i prefer him driving that compared to the merc ML he had before. my brother in law drives a carrera 4. that's great, they're out of my eye-line.
All I can do at this stage is to wish you luck with your campaign.
You have raised some interesting proposals for change in parking regimes in estates.
While we didn't agree you have given me food for thought.
Is it a proper suv though? Will it bring the few hens to the mart and satisfy the school run?
It doesn't have a Euro NCAP test result yet but based on their other models , I take it for granted that it will have a fairly poor safety standard for both it's occupants and for vulnerable road users.
Would find it difficult to argue with this. If it was implemented properly across large urban areas it would make a real impact to the environment at a very low cost to the taxpayer. Would make people question, whether they need the second, third or fourth car in the household. Particularly those who are living in large urban centres that are fairly well served by public transport.
Many estates weren't designed for parking on the road, particularly on both sides. Makes it much more difficult for people pulling out of their drives and children crossing the road due to decreased visibility.
i know it's barely an SUV (it's the aygo cross he's talking about for god's sake) but if this journalist - michael sheridan - is concerned about drivers being stereotyped, he's going the wrong way about it.
It really looks like I will have to make sure to never bring my Cayenne Turbo to Ireland.. seems like it ticks far too many of the haters' boxes and would be at risk. Ireland really isn't the country for a car lover anyway with things like taxes being too high, the roads are definitely too crap, and it's clear that significant amounts of other drivers have a hatred of any car nicer than theirs.
It's a pity as that car really ticks all the relevant boxes for my particular use case..
I was shopping for either an Audi S6 or a Porsche Cayenne as there weren't really any other options in the price range. It just happened that the first car in my price range with the desired spec was a Cayenne Turbo. Still, I feel that if I had this car in Ireland it would be an object of hate from people that couldn't understand why this car makes sense *for me* with my use cases. Of course, if I overlook some of my tick boxes I could find something that would be a compromise, but when I had the option to search for what I want that also fully satisfied what I need, that's what I did. If an S6 with the right spec had turned up before this Cayenne appeared, then I would have taken that instead.
I see that the hatred for the SUV in Ireland comes from a few different places, some of which can be considered to be justified, and some that are just asinine.
By far and away the best ways to combat the problems that the original article touches on would be:
In the interest of being fair and balanced, shouldn't there be a thread titled, Why the reign of suvs on irish roads should continue??
Possible reasons, lower back pain issues when lifting three kids in and out of a car, is made so much less in an SUV
The work horse on a farm, we are a farming Country, many farmers use these to get about difficult terrain were a normal car would sink.
try lifting them out one at a time instead!
joking aside, i don't think anyone in this thread has decried SUVs/4x4s in the context you mention.
Yea I agree with you@Popoutman, you use your SUV as they are ultimately intended and for that reason the hate isn’t really directed at SUVs for those reasons.
I use the same roof rails and carry container on my MB A Class & with AWD & adaptive suspension I can too go almost anywhere you can, with exception of places that obvs I can’t clear like you. We also use our motor to travel with as I prefer to drive on my holidays so we can bring the dogs & equipment. However I’ve no where near the fantastic BHP you’ve got, must be a blast to drive, little jealous tbh…
I thoroughly hate the city baby SUV drivers though, in a place like Dublin City, there’s no need for them to be driven as their daily. They don’t fit in between the actual lane markings, cause awful blockages on residential streets and nearly always have 1 person in them when I come across them. They make it really difficult to see traffic on coming @ a T junction if they are on the LHS
I would like to a see a congestion charge based on emissions &/or weight. That might get people to think twice about if they need to use a tank to get in their Brown Thomas shopping.
Personally I think most SUVs like Nissan Quasqai no bigger than the modern car but d agree smaller cars be better.
The way I would go is another category on the license for farmers, solicitors and important people that need them. It would be separate drive test. Another option is may be have a separate license for women as these yokes too big for them...
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