I have read your posts. I and everybody else here can see exactly what you are trying to do, which is to deflect, bait and switch, whatabout, introduce red herrings, do anything except debate the actual topic at hand in a good faith manner.
As you do again here.
You seriously think there is any difference the relentless push for the Iraq war in the US under the Bush regime and the relentless push for a Ukraine war in Russia under Putin? No of course you don't. Nobody with a straight face does.
But I actually can think of one key difference. Iraq was run by a brutal, tyrannical dictator, and grotesque as the decision to wage that war was, nobody shed a single tear for the Saddam Hussein regime.
In this case, the brutal, tyrannical dictatorship is Russia, and it already HAS gone to war against its neighbour - a free, sovereign democracy.
Russia has been waging war against Ukraine since 2014!
A tyrannical dictatorship occupies a free, sovereign democracy, and now is threatening to greatly expand an insane war of imperialism which has already needlessly claimed 15,000 lives.
So yes, there very definitely ARE good guys AND bad guys here. Any Irish person who is aware of this situation and is not in full sympathy with the cause of Ukraine and its people is a traitor to their own history.
When have NATO declared war on anybody? This irrational 'NATO warheads' makes no sense.
Independent democratic counties request to join a defensive alliance. They are not coerced in any way, or forced. Indeed many of the countries Russia doesn't want included in the alliance, are only they're to protect themselves from Russia.
Unfortunately I have already. But they are full of 'what about this, what about that'.
Deflect, Deflect, Deflect.
This is just a meaningless word salad of deflection. It contains literally nothing of any substance. It carries no defence of your position, and shamelessly makes an allegation of lying, which is laugh out loud hilarious given who is writing the post. But it does help to derail the thread and it does try to drag other posters down to your level, which has been transparently your aim throughout the whole thread, and is Russia's favourite tactic in terms of propaganda and disinformation in general.
Repeating yourself doesn't make you right, do try to read posts before posting lies.
Read my posts.
How did the EU and America interfere with the government in Ukraine? Don't parrot Russian talking points, tell us how they interfered.
The level of irresponsibility in the west is criminal. They're pointing their NATO war heads at Moscow. Remember how the Americans didn't like it when the Russians shipped rockets to Cuba? They are provoking fire. Filatov is one of the sane voices in all this. All he is saying is they want a kind of 'no man's land' between the west and Russia. That is reasonable and promotes peace. But NATO are having none of it.
If you read any of my posts you'd note I'm not one of the alleged 'Pro Russian' posters you're excoriating, I don't support Putin or his government, Ukraine has every right to exist as an independent state. I can understand the fear in Russia about Ukraine joining Nato but thats not going to happen any time soon. There's no doubt though that Ukraine could become a base for future Western Military intervention against Russia so from Putin and Russia's perspective I can understand the concern.
As I've stated earlier you want to take a simplistic, binary approach here, this is not about good and bad, as I've stated the Western imperialists you seem to side with are dripping in hypocrisy here, nauseating lectures on democracy and human rights when they spend so much time underming both , either directly or by proxy.
Lastly as you raised it I was on the marches against the illegal invasion of Iraq, that invasion was never in doubt, it had been 13 years in the planning, once the neo fascist, neo cons came to power they set about implementing their project and 9/11 gave them the opportunity to unleash their war machine, and they did with some relish...the legacy and reality persists today not least in the form of Gitmo - human rights my ar$e!
This 'invasion' is far from certain and in my view and I've been consistent on this, it's not going to happen and was never going to happen...time will tell who's right .
What about Guantanamo and the prisons of Basra? Are the Americans good guys? And like Filatov said in his opening statement, America and EU interfered with a Ukrainian government that was in no way pro Russian:
"We can’t but recall a pivotal moment in the modern Ukrainian history – February 2014, when the US and the EU provoked and supported a bloody unconstitutional coup in Kiev against legitimate government that was, by the way, not even close to being “pro-Russian”. As a result radical nationalist forces came to power in Kiev. It is they who started a military conflict – essentially, civil war – in the Eastern regions of Ukraine,"
Go figure.
(Here's the full text in case you haven't read it 2022-02-02_opening-statement-his-excellency-mr-yuriy-filatov-ambassador-of-russia-to-ireland-russian-embassy-to-ireland_en.pdf (oireachtas.ie))
SFA, as everybody knows. They're just the bait and switch buzzwords of posters who cannot debate the issue because they're shameless propagandists for the criminal, kleptocratic, fascist mafia regime of Putin.
Deflection !
What have Biden and Johnson got to do with Russia massing troops on ukraines borders? Tell me what they have done. Also what has Palestine, Yemen and Latin america got to do with it?
The ones thats being invaded
Somehow you sound like you are state controlled as well
You're fooling nobody.
What you really find nauseating is the thought of Ukraine being able to govern itself in a functioning democracy and being allowed to live in peace, free from Russian colonial interference.
Isn't it?
If it's as lazy as you claim, you should be able to pick it apart no problem.
You didn't bother doing so, preferring a glib, sarky, one line answer that offered precisely nothing. Now that's lazy.
What about what I wrote is incorrect?
I agree with you, it's entirely nauseating listening to Biden and Johnson lecture anyone on human rights, democracy and sovereignty...you can only imagine what Palestinians, many in Yemen and the population of any number of Latin American countries are thinking watching the guff from the two lads!
There's that lazy, simplistic and binary narrative once more.
Who are the good guys?
i) A country which wants to live in peace and be left to decide its own destiny
or
ii) a fascist kleptocratic mafia state run by a dictator, who says their neighbours have no right to exist, already illegally occupies part of their neighbours' land (as well as the land of several other countries) and has mounted 130k troops and counting on its border, ready to unleash war on those same neighbours if they don't do as the dictator wants?
I'd say there's a very easy answer there as to who are the good guys and who are the bad guys. Wouldn't you?
Please tell me who in the 'western side' in this would like to set the world alight?
I never said the Russians were above criticism. But drawing lines between the various camps (NATO, Russia etc) and imagining good guys are on one side and bad guys are on the other, is simplistic. There are good and bad people in all these camps and we should hope that sane people will prevail in all camps. There are wicked people in all these camps who would set the world alight. Let's hope they won't prevail. The real dividing line between good and bad is a cross-section across all camps, not between camps.
You've gotta laugh at a government that speaks of security and fairness, while at the same time poisoning and murdering people throughout neighbouring countries. Then tries to paint an invasion of a soverign state as a coup instigated by a country half way across the planet.
People who swallow this rubbish are off their head.
Presumably all the pro-Russia posters gaslighting and shouting "nothing to see here" also spent the entire winter of 2002/03 ridiculing the prospect of a US invasion of Iraq, and ridiculing the people who protested on the streets against such.
If the Ukranians say "attack is imminent!", that just means widespread panic, stopping of all foreign investments, and general instability. So obviously they're going to play it cool, while they prepare for the possible invasion.
Bizarre that posters would dismiss the idea of Russian IO efforts and false flag incidents, when that was part of their initial invasion of Crimea.
Who knew Russia cared so much for the opinions of Irish folks on the internet to foster so many posters on this thread?
Filatov's opening statement to the oireachtas 2022-02-02_opening-statement-his-excellency-mr-yuriy-filatov-ambassador-of-russia-to-ireland-russian-embassy-to-ireland_en.pdf (oireachtas.ie)
@animalinside protest against NATO expansion.
What nato expansion..
Like any quality posts can't find any from the pro putin types going back nearly 10 years
Well, keep in mind there could be actual Russian experts here (ie. against the Russia hysteria). Probably unlikely given the quality of this thread but one can always hope.
The US and Ukraine are going on so much about this "false flag" stuff and Putin's invasion imminent (DM was even claiming yesterday Putin would be putting Ukrainians in "internment camps" meant to evoke images of concentration camps lol, as if there would be any possible logistical way anything like that could ever occur). https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10479699/Ukrainians-rounded-internment-camps-Putins-invasion-plan.html
but they are pushing the idea so much either one of two things will likely happen:
1) Literally nothing. As has been the case about twenty times before with a very similar sort of hysteria that Putin was about to move. They will frame it as Ukraine being a good guy and bitterly conceding unfair demands to avoid bloodshed which they will use as leverage for future propaganda.
2) There could be a false "false flag" and then America and Ukraine will say "SEE, we TOLD YOU there would be a false flag!!!". In reality it will be an actual Ukrainian attack on Russia designed to look like a false flag. Obviously the US won't likely have direct knowledge of it themselves as it would be too dirty for even them, but it is being repeatedly told to them by the Ukrainians with a wink and a nod that a "false flag" operation is under way by the Russians so that's what they're going with. Then the Ukrainians will show the "evidence" of the false flag.
Other possibilities are they might lie and say Russia attacked first when they didn't or something like that. Putin isn't attacking anyone first, he is lining his troops up as part of normal military exercises and to protest against NATO expansion.
Damn, it doesn't suit the narrative so dismiss it!
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