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Donald Trump discussion Thread IX (threadbanned users listed in OP)

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Comments

  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 18,400 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Brian?


    they/them/theirs


    And so on, and so on …. - Slavoj Žižek




  • Registered Users Posts: 629 ✭✭✭ Detritus70


    No insults please.

    Post edited by ancapailldorcha on


  • Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 26,503 Mod ✭✭✭✭ pixelburp


    This is the root of it, full square. Even on Boards you'll see a certain clatter of posters absolutely riven with either rage or fear over BLM or ANTIFA; both groupings spoken as terrorists, or general threats to democracy. Yet Jan 6th is passed off as a peaceful "nothing burger" with a spectacular degree or hypocrisy from these same individuals. Imagined leftist bogeymen are easier to swallow than an attempted insurrection by good 'ol boys on live TV. You'd wonder had Nancy Pelosi been captured, would even that have spurred some emotion?

    Even now a recent poll showed Republicans downplay or ignore what happened and who egged them on - how does political normalcy lurch on with that kind of dissonance now engrained? If an actual, albeit chaotically organised, coup is given shoulder shrugs by one half of the political establishment, what's next?




  • Registered Users Posts: 36,801 ✭✭✭✭ Itssoeasy


    That Ted Cruz interview on tucker Carlson was just pathetic. People talk about the democrats getting stuck in purity tests, but it’s happening in the GOP also. If one doesn’t stick to the narrative they are called out on Fox News. Ted Cruz was right to say what he said about January 6th most recently, as he was the other over a dozen times he’s said it in the past year.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 36,801 ✭✭✭✭ Itssoeasy


    He blamed the media ? The media were queuing up to get press credentials to cover it, just not live because not even a sitting US president can demand that TV cover every thing they say live, and most certainly a former one doesn’t have that right.



  • Registered Users Posts: 12,479 ✭✭✭✭ kowloon


    An ex-president and ex-reality-tv star. Apparently, when he was on the apprentice he would ramble on for hours and it would be edited down to fit the show. He doesn't understand that live tv doesn't want to cover him going off on a tangent. Even his supporters don't want to listen to that.



  • Registered Users Posts: 10,955 ✭✭✭✭ aloyisious


    I was wondering why former president Trump was spending so much time trying to stop the US National Archives handing over documents to the committee investigating the event of 06 Jan 2021 at the Capitol, thinking he was concerned about documents & other material related solely to the Capitol event being handed over to the committee for its investigative work.

    Today I read that when the official bodies in 3 states working away preparing the genuine documents relating to the passing on of the vote results after the 2020 election closed, the GOP in those states had their own people preparing similar-type documents giving the vote result in the states to Trump at the same time. The snag for the GOP is that the actual vote in the 3 states went to Biden and the GOP people were, in effect, preparing documents giving a fake version of the result. It seems the fake GOP documents were sent on to Washington where they were duly given over to the Archives for preservation. Presentation of forged documents springs to mind in the case of the fake GOP vote result documents sent to Washington after the election closed.

    In respect to the speeches Trump and others gave to the crowd on the 06th Jan 2021 before most of it moved to the Capitol and proceeded to force illegal entry into that building looking for Mike Pence and Nancy Pelosi, it seems that Trump's lawyers are arguing that the speeches are protected and were given in line with their official duties so that any January 6 charges are thrown out of court.



  • Registered Users Posts: 10,955 ✭✭✭✭ aloyisious


    For inclusion when reading the above post, the Rachel Maddow Show has added that there are now 5 states where the state GOP parties held their own meetings at which faked presidential vote results were concocted (after the actual vote was over) to rival the genuine meetings in the 5 states where the genuine vote result were collated and the real certificates were composed and forwarded to Washington for the certification procedure which Mike Pence oversaw at the Capitol on the 06 Jan 2021, certifying that Joe Biden was the winner of the presidential election and not Don Trump.

    The incidences whereby members of the state GOP parties produced and forwarded faked certifications to Washington in an attempt to have Don Trump falsely named as the winner of the election are under investigation by police agencies in the individual states. These may involve interstate agency cooperation as the faked documents produced by the individual GOP seem to show similarities in text and style. Photo images of the reported faked GOP certifications from the 5 states were shown on the R.M. Show. I don't know what means were used to get the faked documents to Washington, reference the possibility of it meaning offences against federal or state laws could have occurred, outside any federal and/or state laws being broken by the individual state GOP parties and members who signed the faked documents as being true certifications of the vote results in an attempt to subvert the election result.

    It's worth keeping in mind that these GOP production of faked documents meetings took place long before the 06th Jan 2021 and the events at the Capitol building on that date.



  • Moderators, Politics Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 10,176 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Quin_Dub


    If those fake documents were posted/shipped to Washington then Mail Fraud would apply, which is a federal crime.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 10,955 ✭✭✭✭ aloyisious


    I had thoughts along that line after reading of cases where people in the US were charged after using the mail system for unlawful benefit.

    In the meantime, the DOJ may be trying to persuade people of interest to turn states evidence as 11 people [ten of whom are members of the Oath Keepers previously charged with other offences] have been charged today with seditious conspiracy, according to CNN which has the charges rated higher than insurrection in terms of awardable prison sentence time [edit] on conviction.

    Post edited by aloyisious on


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 17,578 CMod ✭✭✭✭ Nody


    Trump's attempts to block the Congress from getting his papers "due to executive privilege" when Biden removed it went as expected with Trump lawsuits; he lost.

    The House select committee investigating the 6 January insurrection is now in possession of more than 750 pages of Trump White House records it requested as part of its probe into the worst attack on the Capitol since the 1814 Burning of Washington.


    Mr Trump sued to block the committee from obtaining any of the records on the grounds that he still had the right to assert executive privilege over them despite what Mr Biden had already determined.


    On 9 November, US District Judge Tanya Chutkan denied Mr Trump’s request for an injunction blocking transmittal of the documents to the committee, writing in her opinion that Mr Trump had “not acknowledge[d] the deference owed to the incumbent president’s judgment”. “His position that he may override the express will of the executive branch appears to be premised on the notion that his executive power ‘exists in perpetuity’. But Presidents are not kings, and Plaintiff is not President,” she wrote.


    A month later, a three-judge panel of the US Court of Appeals for District of Columbia upheld Judge Chutkan’s ruling in a opinion holding that Mr Trump “provided no basis for this court to override President Biden’s judgment and the agreement and accommodations worked out between the Political Branches over these documents”. Writing for the unanimous panel, Circuit Judge Patricia Millett wrote that “the profound interests in disclosure” cited by Mr Biden and the select committee “far exceed his generalized concerns for Executive Branch confidentiality”.


    Mr Trump filed a further appeal of the Circuit Court’s ruling with the US Supreme Court just before Christmas, but on Wednesday the court issued an order declining to hear the former president’s case or issue any further orders blocking Nara from transmitting the records to the committee.

    Eight of the nine justices — including all three appointed by Mr Trump — concurred in the ruling.

    Taken from The Independent.



  • Registered Users Posts: 10,955 ✭✭✭✭ aloyisious


    Mike Pence addressed the matter of Trump trying to get him to overturn the election result at the Capitol on 6 Jan 2021 when speaking to an audience at the Federalist Society yesterday saying that he - Mike Pence - did not have the right to overturn the election result. His speech to the society lasted some 21 minutes. Following on from Trump's recent media behaviour toward Pence it seems more than likely that here will be no GOP partnership between both men where a 2024 election run by Trump is concerned. Whether Trump will now include Pence in his "RINO-labeling" of GOP members and cause further damage to the GOP remains to be seen, if he wants it to have him run as its candidate for 2024.



  • Registered Users Posts: 19,462 ✭✭✭✭ Tell me how


    Thought it was interesting that Pence came out with those comments now.

    Apparently, he had spoken with Dan Qualye enquiring if he could overturn the election like Trump wanted him to. Looking at commentary online, it seems that he is still angling for a run himself in 2024. If so, then I would expect him to lose to Trump but he may still have the capacity to inflict significant damage on him if he is in the race for any significant period.



  • Registered Users Posts: 10,955 ✭✭✭✭ aloyisious


    It might be worth keeping an eye out for a "compromise" candidate waiting in the wings for the call from the GOP, however unlikely that sounds. I don't know what the US domestic political set would look like/be in the next 18 months. Some-one with a degree of political sanity, stated religious faith while not sounding like a WASP "Christians Only Need Apply" might please the grassroots and investors with political and cash capital when the other GOP candidates have dubious records of probity in comparison. I wouldn't imagine MP going for the VP gig again after the drubbing he got from Trump.



  • Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 26,503 Mod ✭✭✭✭ pixelburp


    My first thoughts were to wonder if Pence was still in politics, or retiring/stepping down. Cos it's funny how candid politicians become when they know there will not be another election campaign, or a whip to keep you in check. So if he's stepping out of that maelstrom, Pence's words mean nothing. If not, then yes, they could be instructive



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,122 ✭✭✭ Brussels Sprout


    Pence hasn't a hope in 2024. His natural base would be the evangelicals but they seem to be firmly behind Trump.

    At this early stage it's looking like the only person who could run against Trump is Ron DeSantis. Trump recognises this which is why he's been aiming, not too subtle digs in his direction.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 323 ✭✭ arthursway


    I agree pence hasn't a hope in hell of actually winning but could cause Trump some problems in debates if he lifts the lid on some issues as unlikely as that is.

    Ron de Santis is the dark horse here and if articles are to be believed Ron de Santis has some real heavy backing and donations from wall Street and investors.



  • Registered Users Posts: 9,227 ✭✭✭ duploelabs


    Fantastic to hear that he's continuing to drain the swamp



  • Registered Users Posts: 10,955 ✭✭✭✭ aloyisious


    Bannon has stepped forward to broadcast that Mike Pence will have to take his speech with him to his grave. One of CNN's pundits has mooted that Bannon's words can be understood to be a threat to Pence. I disagree with that opinion as Bannon is clever enough not to want USSS agents at his door with the belief that he is a direct threat to Pence. I see Bannon's comment as continuing to further Trumps agenda through the media, something Trump cant.

    Actually as Pence's COS has given evidence to the committee, the next logical step for Pence, if he has left the political stage and wants posterity to be kind to him, would be for him to attend at the committee hearings and tell its members what was said to him by Trump and Trumps re-election agents on the day and days close to that date about turning the election result on its head. I can see that the mere presence of Pence in the area of the committee hearing room/s would get to Trumps agents ears fast, causing chaos there.



  • Registered Users Posts: 19,462 ✭✭✭✭ Tell me how


    Thought the interesting thing about Bannon's words was complaining about Pence and other (Koch guys) ratting Trump out which implies that he was categorically up to something rather than them making stuff up about him which had no basis in truth.

    The Koch guys comment is being considered as a split in the ideological mindset of those influencing the Republican party now with Trump obviously being on one side and more traditionalists (backed by Koch money and including Pence) on the other.

    Think Pence definitely wants a crack at the hot seat. There's no chance of him returning as a VP candidate to Trump. I'd bet Niki Haley as his running mate at this point but it may be DeSantis with the expectation that DeSantis then goes for the main seat later.

    I'm here hoping none of them get close to it but unfortunately I'm not overly confident that that will not be the case.



  • Registered Users Posts: 10,955 ✭✭✭✭ aloyisious


    Bannon's behaviour is not what I expected from a person allegedly behind the spinning of conspiracy stories, like the Trump line of Democrat party machinations intent on ending democracy in the US. Given how he started out doing the spinning, it looks like he's swallowed his alternative reality line.

    It'd be good to see how much truth there is in the Trump party line about the current amount of cash there is in his election war-chest and how much the GOP believes the reported total is, given how Trump himself is a source of that line. If its real and not just promised, it must be banked somewhere and logged with the Feds for tax-avoidance purposes, supposedly an expertise of his.



  • Registered Users Posts: 10,955 ✭✭✭✭ aloyisious


    If Ron did decide to run for the presidency at the next election, that must wound Trump's hopes in Florida, which [as his home state now] he must hope to have as his support base. That is, unless Ron and Trump do a deal with Trump as President and Ron as prospective VP with Trump to step aside after successful election and hand Ron the Oval Office on a plate. There would have to be a great degree of trust for Ron to accept such an offer from Trump.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,122 ✭✭✭ Brussels Sprout



    Why in God's name would Trump ever countenance such a deal? He might be worried about DeSantis but he's not that worried. He assume he'll just steam roller him the same way that he steam rollered the entire Republican field in 2015. DeSantis is a particularly charmless man - I don't think he'll actually be too much of a problem for him. Trump will give him some childish knick-name and beat him by 40 points.



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,478 ✭✭✭✭ Rjd2


    Their is zero chance that RDS or anyone would beat Trump in a primary.

    Firstly like the Democrat primary where Biden came out on top, it will be congested. Trump has lost slight support with Republicans , but when you look at the voting base, 35-45 % are all Trump until the day he passes. When you have such a loyal base whether left , right you can't be beaten.

    RDS is 44 which in US politics means he has another 40 years of politics left so its quite likely he won't want to risk the blowback of trying to win an unwinnable race.

    Also what happens if somehow RDS beats Trump?

    Trump is all about his brand first and the GOP he could not give a **** about. He would likely consider a third party run, call RDS a "RINO" , he wouldn't win, but he would swindle his gullible base for fortunes and ensure RDS lost.

    On the other rivals obviously none have a chance, but it will be interesting who decides to run. I don't think Hailey will, she might beg him enough for a VP spot, Cruz , Pence, Pompeo and Cotton will all run for sure and none of them will do well for various reasons.

    Maybe if pressed Cruz will be the last man standing in what will be a procession.



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,478 ✭✭✭✭ Rjd2


    Anyone who thinks Trump won't run, behave.

    This is a man who craves attention which he has been deprived of since losing his social media, the idea that he would look at something like a presidential election and all the spotlight that would bring and say "not for me " is madness.

    He's also got about minimum 45% chance of winning v Biden/Harris in 2024 due to the electoral college.

    Then to top it off, all the corporate media whether right, left etc will be begging him to run because he made them an absolute ton of money.

    So yeah 3 consecutive president races with Trump, and if he loses in 2024, I'd expect him to run again in 2028.

    The good news is though he for obvious reasons probably won't be in the 2032 GOP primary!



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