The problem is that 400K for a house is not affordable. And before you start on saying thats what it costs - O Cualann Housing Association are building houses starting at €140K in Dublin.
https://www.ocualann.ie/new-page-10
No. Mixed housing. Affordable houses for people on a similar income to nurses, teachers & gardai.
I don't think it's evading questions when it was answered by everybody and anybody and a mod had to step in when it had descended to a farcical nature due to complete misunderstanding by you (even given that I had already answered multiple times while you were blowing no-compute fuse, but anyway).
Anyway, that thing you don't understand is absolutely independent of the SF plan being good for tax payers, it's not, tax payers will be the most out of pocket due to the scheme even if the costs did add up (which they don't for a myriad of other reasons that have been outlined the simplest being that SF's own objections now are torpedoing their future plans).
This is the problem.
When you and SF say 400k is not affordable it’s a lie.
It is certainly affordable to some people and a chance for them to have a place to live.
But you and SF don’t seem to care about these people.
It has to be social or affordable but only to a certain cohort who will vote for SF.
You should look at their recent histories. Also we are still waiting on the siteserv investigation to conclude.
Yes. But real social. Built and owned by us.
No. I only asked you and one other that question. He ran away and you ignored it 4 times.
If not taxpayers, who is most out of pocket?
Explain the lie where I said that local government in Dublin LAs have been dominated by Sinn Fein and the left for most of the last decade.
You left out the bits in bold in order to twist my words and try to make it into a lie. If it is only a lie because you leave out half of what I said, then I am not the liar.
They did not dominate any LA. They had more seats in DCC for less than 5 years when FF/FG combined held many more. Thats your lie there.
You are trying to say, the left, who you also claim won't deal with SF, were united in supporting SF on the LA.
Give it up.
Again, you are trying to make something out of something I didn't say. I clearly said that SF and the Left have dominated local government in Dublin for most of the last decade. That is true. Trying to change what I said in order to make it untrue is just stupid and deceitful.
You are gaining a reputation for attacking posters based on what you think they said rather than what they actually did say.
Whats your point? Is it that SF and the left dominated the council? If so thats a lie. Several parties combined had more seats than FF/FG. Thats true.
You talking to me about my reputation is priceless.
Won't there be a knock-on effect as private developers will be building houses for this cohort. I'm sure those developers will be only too delighted to provide homes for 400K for these individuals. The criteria for affordable houses is salary and need. If a house costs 200K to build why do you want to put 200K into the pocket of a developer?
Edit: here is a description of how the O Cualann model would worked in their mixed developments of social, private and rental. They suggest that the cost of the house should be based on 25% of the income of the people.
https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/breda-o-brien-government-s-latest-housing-plan-is-doomed-to-failure-1.3644666?mode=sample&auth-failed=1&pw-origin=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.irishtimes.com%2Fopinion%2Fbreda-o-brien-government-s-latest-housing-plan-is-doomed-to-failure-1.3644666
The issue with the local authorities is that they have no power. Gov. decides policy. O Cualainn Housing say that they can work very well with the local authorities, but the blockage in the system is the Government Depts. County Council have to implement Gov. policy which is too over bearing and out of touch with the reality on the ground.
Who is most out of pocket from what? The council trying to build itself without any expertise? The answer in that case is everyone, those who pay taxes and have it wasted and those who don't pay taxes who will be waiting longer for housing due to planning objections and massive cost overruns. The plan has a hole the size of a giant iceberg in it and will sink accordingly.
It's clear Sinn Feins approach on housing is by far the best option available to us, I'm surprised this is even up for debate on this thread.
it's not, tax payers will be the most out of pocket due to the scheme
So who will?
Why are you asking a question to your own question?
Everybody has explained how.
The Council isn't trying to build them itself (and I disagree with you that they don't have the expertise - the Chief Architect for DCC is the former Chief Architect for Ballymun Regeneration and has a staff of 90 for starters). I suggest you have a look at how the Councils are partnering with not for profit agencies to provide housing. O Cualann is one where I see your good friend the Minister, Darragh was happy to turn up for the photo opp. https://www.ocualann.ie/about
At the bottom of that page you will see who O Cualann partner up with to deliver affordable housing. You may recall that one of the houses that they built which cost £177K was sold a few years later for over 300K. (just for the record, the Council got back about 60K from the sale of that house, so they were not at a loss for it).
lol
Certainly in line with all of sfira other economic plans
magic beans and hope for the best
I quoted you and asked you to explain. If not the tax payer who? You're long on questions and short on answers.
Well we need make a change from making it worse. We'll be in the same situation but worse for the next few years.
They are just desperately trying to ridicule the plans because of their dislike to SF in general, it has nothing to do with their economic policies.
More their personal pockets.
Sound.
Not sure why you keep attacking other posters for not answering as they are answering, you just don't like the answers and ask the question again. Nobody is running away, nobody is afraid to answer.
But anyway, I'll repeat the answer I gave already:
The answer in that case is everyone, those who pay taxes and have it wasted and those who don't pay taxes who will be waiting longer for housing due to planning objections and massive cost overruns. The plan has a hole the size of a giant iceberg in it and will sink accordingly.
So this is an extract from that housing plan on their site, granted it was in 2018. LPT BTW now brings in somewhere in the region of €500m annually, never mind the extra financial support from the LGF that gives councils without a big enough population base the ability to deliver services.
The bank proposal, apart from being impossible legislation to pass, is laughable as the banks would hit customers harder elsewhere. Rent certainty sounds completely made up and the current difficulties in getting housing starts, through multiple challenges, some even by SF representatives, makes the 100K claim just as much of a fairy tale.
Build 100,000 new social and affordable homes.
Ensure 20% social and affordable housing on all new developments.
Introduce legislation to limit the rate that banks can charge - even a 1% reduction would save mortgage holders an average of €2,000 a year on a €200,000 mortgage.
Abolish the Local Property Tax.
Provide rent certainty.
Introduce a tenant's rights charter.
Alongside the introduction of rent regulation, look at the capping of rent subsidies
Calm down. I've not attacked anybody.
I asked one person a question. They ran away.
I asked you the same question point blank 4 times. You ignored it.
I didn't ask anyone else.
Do you not see a worsening problem down the road when we've less public land and private leases begin to expire? Let alone spiralling private rents.
You don't need to start projecting your own emotions onto others, if you're getting worked up, go outside for a while and come back later.
Nobody is avoiding your questions, we're not allowed to answer that particular question anymore due to moderation because someone on the thread didn't understand the answer, accusing others of running away or not answering is the tactic of a coward, but anyway, we move on.
When leases expire they can be renewed, if the lease is going to be allowed to expire it can be organised months or years in advance, it's not a surprise that a 25 year lease ends after 25 years, and as said, it allows much more accommodation to be leased then if they were bought (because there isn't an infinite pit of money to use, it will be a lot less if LPT gets scrapped). That's not saying everything should be leased but it should be part of any portfolio to allow for future flexibility (e.g. in the luxury apartment case, would the council want to be on the hook for refurbishment down the line? One apartment could cost the equivalent of refurbishing or buying multiple other apartments).
If the public land has an apartment complex built on it then it's not public anymore, it's private residences, the council can't do anything with it either way, that's why you were being asked where next to use as all of your suggestions so far were locations that were already being developed with SF being one of the blockers to getting built.
What has siteserv got to do with this development? The developer is Glenveagh.
You made an accusation of bribes and FG creaming off money from the proposal as well. Have you anything to back up these claims or are you just throwing out stupid soundbites? Who in FG has benefited from this development.
On the development itself I can see why SF might have objected to it.
30 per cent social housing, 20 per cent affordable housing and 50 per cent of the homes sold privately by the developer.
But have no idea why they voted against the new proposal.
853 homes built at Oscar Traynor Road in Santry, 40 per cent of which will be used for social housing, 40 per cent for cost rental homes, and 20 per cent sold to low- and middle-income workers qualifying for the upcoming affordable purchase scheme.
with affordable homes costing €204,000-€238,000 for a one bed to €250,000- €306,000 for a three bed, with cost-rental prices up to €1,500 a month for a two-bed apartment
Do SF actually want any housing built? Notice how Mr SF Housing invented inflated figures on the cost of the affordable houses to the buyer leaving out the AHF scheme.
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/construction-of-850-dublin-homes-at-oscar-traynor-site-approved-1.4735849
You've gone from saying it was answered by others to we can't. We know you saw it 4 times and decided to ignore it.
Since the start you've been getting emotional and accusing me of all sorts. No worries. I answered in good faith.
When leases expire the tenants can be asked to leave also. We could house people in property we own or property we lease. After 25 years we'll have nothing but newly homeless, even with a heads up. The council have tenancy agreements. They need only be on the hook for what they sign up to.
(e.g. in the luxury apartment case, would the council want to be on the hook for refurbishment down the line? One apartment could cost the equivalent of refurbishing or buying multiple other apartments).
Are you really trying that one on? Incredible. They could avoid the luxury apartments altogether.
No public land should have any private construction IMO. The PPP isn't a good deal for the taxpayer.
