Are we really that desperate for people to prop up the pension pyramid scheme?
But it does give them citizenship. They just have to wait a little while.
Previous: Illegal, no rights.
New plan: They are made legal and can get an Irish passport after a few years.
How are 18-23 years olds counted as children?
What would you call them?
Is there a cut off point when you seize been a child of your parents?
No... it doesn't give them citizenship. It provides them with the legal visa to work and live in Ireland. That's it. (Which is bad enough IMHO).
The problem relating to citizenship is that their period of living here illegally will be accepted as the required time needed for citizenship applications. So, they'll be able to apply the same as anyone else who has jumped through the legal hoops.
It's a joke because this amnesty seeks to reward those who have broken our laws... (but it doesn't reward them with citizenship, although it is wiping the slate clean.)
you had paraphrased from the articles and quoted selectively. the title you used was not in the article.
persons under the age of 23 in fulltime education can be counted as dependants of their parents.
This is not about how parents view their children.
This is the legal status of people. Children are those under 18. We differentiate between adults and children, no? Otherwise, by your logic, a child could be 50 years old, if their parents were still alive.... and everyone else would be required to treat them as a child.
How do you explain the difference in punishment for crimes between adults and children? What age does that difference end?
Dependents are not the same as children. You can have dependents of any age.
“adult” means any person of or over the age of 18 years;
“area”, in relation to a health board, means functional area;
“child” means a person under the age of 18 years;
it is not something unique to this process. there are other situations where, for instance, certain social welfare payments will be paid in respect of children up to the age of 22 if they are in full time education.
yes its 18 in the west and a lot younger in some of the source countries
what would you call a 23 year old ? sweet jebus !!!
not mention the multiple cases of adult males claiming to be children ,
25 year old pretends to be 14 ,
a laughable pantomime is carried out and he is placed in unsecure a accommodation only to go missing the following day and vanish do do you think that doesn't happen ?
Wooh calm down.
I'll try explain what is confusing you in the article with an every day example.
I have a son and a daughter, 18 and 19. I get chatting to a stranger who asks me have I any children, I say yes I have daughter that is 18 and a son that is 19.
I don't say no,no, no children, not in a legal sense because that would be creepy and weird.
Now I could say I have "adult children" - but I think most people who are not dangerously stupid wouldn't take offence that I didn't, especially considering I included their ages.
The article
Applicants are allowed to include a spouse or partner, and children aged between 18 and 23 in their applications. Successful applicants will be allowed to access the labour market and can begin a path to Irish citizenship
Applicants are allowed to include a spouse or partner, and children aged between 18 and 23 in their applications
Maybe if people stopped selectively quoting bits and pieces there would be less outrage.
Who knows.
Fair play to Helen McEntee, she's knows that migrants will vote for whatever government normalized their status. Getting in there before Sinn Fein, who will have to up their game when they are in government in 2-3 years.
The minister herself said it on radio this morning
They won't be given a passport. They will be able to buy one, just like lots of legal immigrants do.
well... let's consider the difference in our interpretations.
A) You've decided that it refers to how parents view their own children, but extended beyond that, to cover the description in the article.
B) I'm looking at the legal definition of what is considered an Adult and a Child.
Typically, when you see such an article, which definition would most likely to be used? The legal definition which is specific, or the vague reference with any number of interpretations. Unless, of course, the intent is to tug heart strings and encourage sympathy, in which case, the vague reference would be more suitable.
And drop the "Calm down" and outrage comments. All it does is show your desire to dismiss other peoples concerns on topics.
the legal definition they seem to be using, and the article isn't very clear on this, is the same definition used by parts of social welfare.
Going by the article anyone between 18-24 can now claim to be an unaccompanied minor ?
Could you link/quote those areas in social welfare using the term in the same manner? [The Child Act that I linked above shows clearly the legal definition, which is obviously different from what you've claimed.]
one example
Children aged 18 and over
If your child is 18 years of age or over, you can continue to get an Increase for a Qualified Child (IQC) for three months after he or she leaves second level education or finishes the Leaving Certificate (provided that they are not getting a social welfare payment in their own right). Note that an IQC can continue to be paid if your child starts work immediately after finishing school.
If you are getting a long-term social welfare payment and your child is in full-time education, an IQC will be paid up to 22 years of age or up to the end of the academic year in which he or she reaches 22.
link won't post properly so you will have to cut and paste
https://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/social_welfare/irish_social_welfare_system/claiming_a_social_welfare_payment/claiming_and_increase_in_your_payment_for_a_child_dependant.html
Jaysus, I have decided nothing. It's not my opinion.
To be honest I don't see how I could have explained it more clearly or at this stage what could possibly be confusing you.
Applicants and their children up until 23 can apply.
Much like health insurance or car insurance or a myriad of other things I suppose that use the exact same perfectly acceptable terminology.
if your plan covers children, you can now add or keep your children on your health insurance policy until they turn 26 years old. Children can join or remain on a parent's plan even if they are: Married. Not living with their parents.
Adults.
Thanks. I appreciate the explanation.
You really should consider @ohnonotgmail post as a way to argue.
It's an argument over the use of vocabulary. That's all. And it is your opinion because we're not talking about the use of the word in SW, but the use in the article... which is not bound in the use of legal definitions.
But then, so too, was my point based on opinion.
Great news.
A rare occasion when I can say well done to McEntee
It's an argument you are having with perfectly acceptable vocabulary.
Leave me out of it. Nothing to do with me, I didn't invent it.
I merely tried to explain it to you, citing examples.
So would you believe that all illegal migrants should be made legal, bypassing the visa requirements we have in place to protect both the Irish economy and society, in general?
Just to be fair...Shouldn't we drop the restrictions on all visa requirements for anyone wanting to move to Ireland then? (because that's what this amnesty is doing for every illegal migrant who has already made into the country) Just open our borders entirely, and give everyone the right to live, work and receive supports?
Between O'Gorman giving refugees own door accomodation and now McEntee opening illegals with open arms, we really do have a terrible government. How tf did people vote for these scumbags????
I saw RTE had an interview on tv earlier with an illegal immigrant. No face blurred, openly talking how she couldn't leave the country or she wouldn't get back in. Openly stated she's sending money back out of the country to her children.
Because these agendas weren't part of their election campaigns... and the politicians have decided to do these things without the approval of the electorate. I don't see the point in blaming the people who voted the government in... it's not as if other parties wouldn't jump at the chance to do similar gestures.
"Those with minor convictions can apply"....nearly everything is minor compared to being an illegal immigrant!
We have immigration laws for a reason. The hundreds of thousands who came here legally, jumped through all the hoops, paid all the extortionate fees, paid their tax etc. must be fcuking fuming!
the people here illegally are probably paying taxes as well.
When the money tree dies in this country. It's going to be fun.
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