I made a mock up route here. You can play with the departure and destination. On my route you need to add about 40kWh to get back to Dublin.
Well the second car market is a bit different for EVs and people will get used to. A 64kWh battery is a commodity which will have a good value irrespective of the state/age of the car. Unless somewhere in the future we can speak of cars of 500kWh the car will have value due to that battery which can be used in many other applications.
32k for an ID4 city on the road
we initially went to Skoda to look at the Scala and Kamiq as I saw Them advertised as 219 a month went to see them and they were too small, looked at the Karoq and thought it was a nice car, but at 350 a month I thought I’d look at what others have. Found the ID4, the range suits 99% of our driving, only 220 a month vs 250+ for fuel ( with 4c off a litre)
I think the perception of EVs being expensive is more that there is a very very limited second hand market at the moment. And that's where "cheap" cars can be gotten. A huge amount of people never will buy a brand new car.
When youre looking at new cars on their own, EVs really arent a million miles more expensive. For example, irelands best selling car last year was hyundai tucson, price range 35 to 50k. The Ioniq 5 is slightly bigger, same brand, price range 40 to 55k. Which depending on spec means OTR price of both would be similar or the same. So affordable to lots of people who decide to buy new.
That depends on your definition of long distance, I'm quite confident I could drive from Dublin to Cork tomorrow and back if needed, possibly without needing a fast charge depending on how long I'm staying and if a slow charger is available
As for people who drive long distances for work, in most jobs that I've seen which require you to be on the road, either the company provides a fuel card or lets you expense your fuel bills, in which case you wouldn't be worrying about the fuel bill
It's the 80% of drivers who commute less than 50km per day who would benefit the most from driving an EV. A Leaf 40kWh would easily do this and have plenty enough range for the weekend road trip.
I agree the selection of affordable EVs on the market right now is bad. But to be frank, most of the mainstream brands have pretty much given up on affordable cars anyway and have outsourced it to budget brands. With car prices going up across the board the notion of an affordable car is basically dead for now
ID 4 77KwH
A better route planner for the win. What car?
It is set to terminate at the end of 2022 anyway. Hurry up you newcomers 😊
Didn't know that
How many are we up to !
It’s also only limited to the first 50,000 EV’s on the road in Ireland, and once we hit 50,000 EV’s we all lose the discount.
Some people have no choice because, perhaps their job involves long distances, perhaps they look at the poor state of the charging network……and let’s hope you don’t have to drive your EV in the north, it’s even worse, not everyone can get a home charger…..
Have first trip with the EV to Donegal soon. Already having range anxiety.
anybody have any tips ?
You need a tag,
I think any of the providers that offer tags facilitate it
Hi, what's the story with toll savings? Is that just specific companies?
nothing wring with feeling smug.
youd be surprised to see how many people can afford an EV but don’t realise.
my monthly repayments are cheaper than my monthly fuel bill on my old 2006.
the Savings on motor tax alone pays for 2 months repayments. Saving on tolls and insurance another month.
savings on maintenance another months.
so at the the end of the year it’s cheaper
You feel smug that other have no choice but to pay those high fuel prices? Really….. EV vehicles are not within everyone’s reach…..
Totally true. I was once told never underestimate how lazy/complacent/stupid the "general populous " is. Evidence of this is how a friends sister got a tesla, and just plugged it in at home without thinking about shopping around for electricity. €900 bimonthly bill later and they are confused about these savings that can be made on an EV.
Another thing, even if we have more EV charge points at home, it's not as if they will all be on charge every night, with greater range this is now not required and there's plenty of folk with no idea on night rate etc who will be charging during the day
Supply to most houses is 60amp, an EV only takes 32 amp max. So even if one EV at every house, it will only be 50% of planned capacity and at night time cookers and showers won't be running.
You have a major flaw in your thinking. You are looking at the overall grid, not local.
Your house fuse might be at 50% but the transformer is shared across several houses and has diversity built in so its not sized to give every house 60A at the same time so it could be on fire outside if everyone connected to that specific transformer and charged at 7kW at the same time! :)
I'm being facetious there but my point is, the question that was asked was about local restrictions, not about the overall grid.
What happens during the world cup Ireland matches at half time when everyone puts on kettles at exact same time?
A 2min boil of several 2kW kettle at a local level will be fine. 7kW continuously for hours is a different prospect entirely.
I just think the issue is overplayed, as a downside to EVs when in fact it may be great for the grid
I agree it gets overplayed in terms of the "grid collapsing due to EV's". Loads of spare generation capacity at the grid level at night and as you said it has some significant positive sides but again the question wasnt directed at the grid level but more the local level so I think you are answering a different question.
You'd be surprised how this stuff penetrates into the public mind and get twisted. Honestly it seems kinda messed up that a law can come into force requiring you to allow remote access to control how power is used in your own home.
The people on forums are almost inevitably in the minority. Most people won't know, won't care and won't touch it and as long as the majority do that, the system could work as planned.
Smart chargers in the UK are flawed as a power control, people already state on the forums that they simply remove the internet connection after the install to avoid any control over charging.
If there's ever anything like that brought in here, I'll simply get a 16a and 32a CEE plug installed. Dumb 32a plug, cheaper than the EV charger (as the EVSE would be in the cable) and not subject to any regulation.
Same reason I'll never get a smart meter. Simply doesnt benefit me to do so.
Supply to most houses is 60amp, an EV only takes 32 amp max. So even if one EV at every house, it will only be 50% of planned capacity and at night time cookers and showers won't be running. I just think the issue is overplayed, as a downside to EVs when in fact it may be great for the grid. No one cried wild when people installed 40 amp showers , and then put in a second 40 amp shower like half of houses around. Sure upgrades may be needed but typically that's a new local substation that may be old anyway. Heat pumps will have a bigger impact. Load sensing and smart chargers are only shortly away from being a reality. Trials already happening in uk
See this link
While this may seem like doom and gloom it's actually great for the network, users can over-ride the request, and it will only be for a short period if needed. Similar could be done today with immersions. Solar PV prices are also dropping like a stone and some EV owners fill from the sun. Already heavy users such as steel plants agree to short power cuts in exchange for lower prices
Showers don’t last for several hours. The two are not comparable, you can overload circuits for short periods.
Yeah, I've accepted the fact an EV probably won't work. We're buying a holiday home abroad, and would love to have a car based there, but it could be left sitting for up to 6 months at a time..
edit: and the house is coming with a 5kWp system!
For longer summer trips we'll probably be driving there from Dublin (2 Ferries & 1,800km drive each way, or 1 ferry & 2,800km each way), but for other shorter trips, having a car there would be mush easier. I have an old ICE here I could bring over and leave there, but long term it'd probably just be less hassle to have a LHD car... I did see a Model 3 for sale for €33k (which would be way too expensive for me anyway!!), but it's an American import with the Tesla charge port, so charging it would be a pain in the arse! (not sure if you could retrofit a CCS2 onto an American Model 3).
I think picking up an old ICE over there is probably the best bet. Would have loved a little EV for there as it's mostly still free charging (AC & DC).edit: and the house is coming with a 5kWp system too!!
Everyone doesnt take a shower at the same time though and they only last minutes (same for kettle etc). The question is around EV charging which will all happen at night at the same time and for hours at a time so lots of overlap.
What you are referring to is max grid issues but the question wasnt really about the overall grid, its about the individual transformers on his cul-de-sac being overloaded. Smart meter's wont solve that. ESB have said they will need to upgrade parts of the network on an as needed basis.
His example.... 15 houses in a cul-de-sac. If even 10 of those are charging at 7kW's each at the same time, what will happen? Very hot transformers and low voltage is what will happen! :)
The transformer(s) will need to be upgraded.
In the long term car to grid systems means your house has a 50kW battery to help balance the grid, in the form of a car, and so plugged in EVs gave massive potential to soak up excess wind at night, and feed back to grid at peak times.
V2G is a long way off in terms of general rollout. Its proven tech but not ready for prime time.
"None" of todays EV's support that (a couple of exceptions) and by the time it becomes common you will have 000s of people with cars and charge points that dont support it and reluctant to shell out more cash for it. It will happen, but it wont be everywhere in the medium term.
In the short term no, instant showers take more than EVs, people throw on their kettle, electric cooker, washing machine, it's really only peak times 5pm to 7pm where problems might happen, but EVs can easily load balance and charge at night. In the UK all new home chargers must be internet connected, and medium term the plan is to send out a signal to delay charging at peak overload times. In the long term car to grid systems means your house has a 50kW battery to help balance the grid, in the form of a car, and so plugged in EVs gave massive potential to soak up excess wind at night, and feed back to grid at peak times. Smart meters already penalise energy usage at peak times in terms of cost most high mileage EV commuters already use night rate times.
Theo e away from gas and oil to heat pumps will have a bigger impact as they may be operating 10 or 20 hours a day, but they will probably switch off at peak times and ramp up and cheap times
I would say a cheap one as depreciation may be highest cost for EVs. If used very little you should lift wheels off the ground, and shield tyres from direct sunlight. Tyres will crack and get flat spots if left sitting Make sure tyre pressures are high. Ideally keep indoors in a dry garage. In terms of main battery some cars you can limit charging to say 70% and so then leave car connected to the charger. You might want to disconnect the 12 volt, or put it on a good trickle charger or bring it indoors to keep the frost away from it.
I don't know if any brands are better than others but Tesla tends to look after main battery and 12 volt battery well, any car with connected app will at least allow you to check status so you don't arrive to car with flat 12 volt and flat main battery. Teslas tend to drop 1% per day, so you might need to keep charger connected. With a remote app you could fill to 100% before you arrive, although the leaf might be able to do this, but the non 100% option is not on later models I believe.
In terms of depreciation an old 500 euro banger car may be less risk and cost to leave sitting parked up. You can declare off the road to not pay road tax for one calendar month at a time with minimum 3 month re-tax period. Older cars (over 10 years) would need an NCT every 12 months.
What would happen if every house had a charger installed, and each house was charging simultaneously? Would their be some sort of power limitation to the area...
Yes, is the short answer.
It is known that parts of the network will need to be upgraded as we progress to more and more EV's and heat pumps. It will need to be done on an as needed basis. Not as much in housing estates but more so in rural areas where one transformer could be feeding 5 houses.
Each house is connected to a transformer and ESB can roughly tell when a transformer is being overloaded. They wont know exactly when everyone is charging their cars but they'll know x kWh's is going through that transformer so they'll have an idea and you'd probably start seeing lights flicker etc. One call to ESB and they'll check if an upgrade is required and that will be that.
Maybe for interest for some Tesla S/X owners CHAdeMO adapter 99 quid
