Except, that it's a reasonable argument, since the concept of a brain drain is recognised... but also those who tend to stay behind in countries are often the most traditional and conservative, who have the most to lose if a country changes.
Logic seems to be your enemy Bubbly.
The political will IS there, according to you? You have even greater opportunities to impose your beliefs on others than immigrants do because you can run for office, they can’t, and again if what you say of others is true that they would vote the way you imagine they would in any referendum, then you’re a shoo-in in terms of your election prospects.
You’d have no shortage of candidates who share your beliefs to run in every constituency that would give you a majority in the Dáil, could have your own oligarchy if you wanted and to hell with democracy and having to have any regard for inconveniences like international human rights law - everything that makes Irish society Irish, you could turn it on it’s head and claim you’re doing it in the national interest.
In reality however, you’d be likely to be among the first to demand to know who’s bright idea was it to locate a detention centre in an airport, just because someone else came up with the idea before you 🙄
It’s nowhere near a reasonable argument!
I’ll admit it’s the first time I heard of it, I thought it was just Glock being Glock and clutching at straws, expecting anyone should entertain that nonsense as a last gasp effort when they’d run out of ideas.
Anyone who goes from portraying immigrants as savages who are going to be the ruination of Europe because they’re incompatible with Western society and multiculturalism has failed… to claiming that they have concerns that nobody is considering that it’s unethical for the educated elite who share our Western values to leave their own countries…
There’s a good reason nobody offers it as a legitimate argument - it’s proponents can’t even bring themselves to take it seriously.
So going to a country and taking their resources (well trained people) is ok with you?
That's colonialism.....
Pretty sure no one is being forced into any planes to come live here.
You never said, what took you to live here?
No one was forced into a coffin ship either.
@One eyed Jack won’t let me quote for some reason.
Either you don’t know what political will is, or you are mistaking it for public opinion. If someone went public with their plans to deport illegals from Ireland, every NGO, current politician, tv and radio station, media outlet and blogosphere would have the candidate tarred, feathered and labelled a racist before they got their second sentence out. There would be no balanced reporting or debating with “the racist”. Even if you had the best economic, health and security policies in the world, you’d be referred to by all of the above as “the racist”.
Peter Casey literally said that travellers were “basically people camping in other people’s land” and “not paying their fair share of taxes in society”. He was absolutely lambasted by everyone and anyone, called a racist, told to pull out of the Presidential race. Could you or anyone else in the thread refute what he said? Is land ownership so high in the travelling community so high that they have land all over the island, and if so, why use the Curragh during Covid, as one example?
There is a reason advertising and propaganda exists, because what people see and hear on a daily basis they believe.
No. They weren't. Some left, some didn't
Do you think the same applies to yourself at all, or are you one of those people that thinks for themselves?
Why is it unused?
Paywall for me
Airport immigration detention facility still not operational
Better? 😁
And a few million chose to starve too, eh? Great to see someone double down to the point of absurdity rather than admit their position is nonsense. Ideological capture is the term, I believe
What are you talking about? We don't put people on flights to this country. They decide if they want to come. That poster has no interest in whether any other countries have 'brain drain'
If a person holds views which are completely at odds with mass media, it is fair to say that - rightly or wrongly - they are not holding views created by mass media. The people you are criticising might be wrong or right, but don't pretend that influence by the mass media narrative is a "them" problem.
I'm not really surprised that you claim that it's the first time you've heard of it... even though there are hundreds (if not thousands) of articles/opinion pieces regarding the brain drain in Africa regarding immigration to Western nations of Africans. Google is your friend.. perhaps try brain drain from Africa to western nations. You'll get plenty of reference material and statistics.
Oh damn, I suppose I shouldn't point out your exaggeration of the comments on the thread, or the post of mine that you quoted, in order to make the claim made in bold above. Nah.. I've attempted to rein in your desire to exaggerate before, and it's lead nowhere except in circular motions ultimately leading to exasperation since you do enjoy attributing comments to others which they haven't made... all the while claiming that it's perfectly reasonable to read between the lines (as opposed to dealing with what people have actually written)
Oh, and before you get your nickers in a twist, I have never called immigrants savages, nor suggested that they were incapable of adjusting to living/working in a first world nation. I have said the cost to first world nations were too high over extended periods... but that's a reasonable point to make. If you consider it to be unreasonable to state that, perhaps consider whether you, yourself, are being unreasonable?
You quoted me, and decided to post crap that doesn't relate to what I posted... The gas thing is that you didn't even counter what I said. You just skipped sideways.
It's offered as a reasonable argument because governments around the world have recognised the problems that such as situation has for the development of their own economies. Now, you're simply ignoring the realities that less prosperous nations face in retaining skilled/educated workforces, who could earn so much more in other nations.
You're deflecting. Not surprised in the slightest, btw. I had you on ignore for weeks now, and I kinda hoped that when I took you off it, you would have returned to (as you used to offer) offering honest and accurate discussion, but nope. Still more of the same crap that made me ignore you in the first place.
You completely ignored the points he made... just so you could ask a question that was unrelated to the points he made...
Yeah.
I'll go back to ignoring you now. Seems nothing has changed.
Casey got 330'000 votes, on what was a very short campaign, and with everything short of being tarred and feathered used to blacken his name. To this day, we are being told what a bad President he would have made etc. and how lucky we are to have President Higgin's. And I have nothing bad to say about President Higgins for sure. But it shows what a ground swell of opinion is out there, when given a chance to express itself. Easy to see why our politicians are so afraid of referendums. The Swiss have a great system,100'000 signatures needed to call for a referendum and 50'000 signatures needed to strike down / change existing law. Great system. Keeps the Govt linked to the will of the people.
I was out in Dublin last night, and I must of met one of the lads on this thread, as he was arguing to the death against mass immigration all night, with Africans, Brazilians, and all sorts of immigrants around him. He simply didn't give a **** how he was judged, and that's how we all need to approach the topic. He was near demented in his hatred of mass immigration, even though one of his parents are Middle Eastern. His passion for the subject was fascinating, as I've never seen a man so driven by something. While I hate speaking for the majority, I honestly think we've bigger numbers than our detractors think.
I find it amazing that one of the biggest changes this country has ever been through gets no serious discussion or debate in the Dail , never criticised in our media, its like there is an embargo on being critical of migration
You can bury **** in a hole, but eventually it will overflow and we'll all have **** on our shoes. The truth always wins in the end, it's the safest bet in the world.
Being against mass immigration doesn't have to mean that someone is against the traditional manner of immigration, with the particular focus on skilled labor meeting a demand.
I wouldn't be against immigration, since I've lived extensively abroad as an expat. I see it as a boon to a nation to have an exchange of peoples of varying backgrounds, and acts as a stimulus within an economy. However, I don't support mass immigration, because invariably it encourages too much in the way of allowing people in who are not self-sufficient. The costs are generally too high over extended periods. I have a similar problem with multiculturalism. I'm not against it, entirely, just this open policy that ignores the wide range of possible negatives, instead focusing on vague feel-good notions.
Both immigration and multiculturalism need to be managed with the best interests of the native population at heart.
However, there are going to be people who are against mass immigration, or immigration in general, because they haven't really thought the whole thing through, instead, embracing extremes to justify their positions. Little different from the pro-multiculturalism crowd that is present on the thread, just holding opposite positions.
Control, is a stage we're well beyond my friend, and you know that too. I'm a very social creature, and love talking to people from everywhere. I got a taxi home last night from a lad from Kirghistan, we talked about religion, order, society, the whole lot, and I loved it. But if a gun was put to my head, mass immigration, or no immigration, I know what I'd pick. I simply love my people, and don't want to experiment in a plan that could ruin what we are.
Control, is a stage we're well beyond my friend, and you know that too
I disagree. It's never too late to reverse policies and adopt new policies that manage/control the situation more effectively. There are plenty of examples throughout history where society has forced governance to take an entirely different approach to certain things. This is no different. And yes, I'd choose mass immigration over no immigration, because with mass immigration, you can still choose to control how it is managed, encouraging those from cultures which compliment our own (based on past results), while discouraging or limiting immigration from those cultures that don't. So, for example, encouraging immigration from SE Asia, such as China or Japan, while downplaying that from the M.East. It's still mass immigration... just controlled.
As for ruining what we are... nah... I don't see it. Ireland has changed nearly each time that I've lived abroad, and returned. Not simply perspectives on issues like homosexuality, but also the sense of entitlement that has become quite common. All societies change over time. I watched China, which is likely one of the cultures most resistant to external influence, change before my eyes, over the course of a decade, all the while the government, and older generations worked to maintain the traditional viewpoints. They failed. Even with centuries of social conditioning, they failed. Just as holding on to past behavioral norms in Ireland will fail... regardless of immigration. Irish people are far too hooked into telecommunications, and the media to remain as they once were... just as American culture, and American perspectives on a wide range of issues have been adopted here.
When you think about it, the sole purpose of any politician is to look after their electorate...
Western politicians just haven't been doing that. Multiculturalism objectively makes life worse for Europeans.
All the traditional political parties in Europe just need removed. I think Brexit and Trump are the start of things to come...
We don't have national politicians that put their people first anymore...we have EU project implementation managers
I've never seen such a shower of useless politicians across the western world as in the last few years
To be fair, our politicians had different interests before they became EU project implementation managers, and they were just as inept at putting the interests of the electorate first. Irish politics has always been corrupt as F.. and rarely placed the interests of the average Irish person first. Someone else always came first...
UK so off-topic but where UK leads Ireland follows:
This is disturbing. It reminds me of HAPHAPHAP at a very young age being indoctrinated in my Catholic School with the concept of "Original Sin". Of all the things taught to me this was the one which left me most convinced that Religion is a Cult. You are a sinner from head to toe now becomes you are a racist from head to toe. Repent!
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2022/01/29/children-aged-seven-taught-not-racially-innocent/
Children as young as seven are to be told they are not "racially innocent" because they view "white at the top of the hierarchy" as part of diversity training for teachers.
<snip> - copyrighted article behind paywall removed
You don’t prove your claim “ immigration has no real impact “ . Promoting immigration and amnesty does not help .
You must work for Interpol or most likely chat with them online .
In reply One Eye Jack and cso net migration.
The figures are estimates and the 12.1 % of foreign nationals is going back to the census of 2016 . This does not take into account those that got Irish citizenship or errors in filling out the form and illegals 17k +.The covid pandemic is the cause for the reduction in the net migration.
The issue of pps numbers is at odds with cso estimates for net migration !
https://gript.ie/cso-almost-a-million-pps-numbers-issued-to-immigrants-in-past-decade/
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