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Garda preparedness for mass shootings - Glenties incident (2020)

BrianD3

I only heard of this incident yesterday when the court case was on the news. In summary, a lad on a deer hunting trip in Glenties, Co. Donegal, got drunk, took cocaine and got angry. Went back to his B&B to get his rifle, went around the town shooting at property and in the general direction of people including Gardai and armed Gardai. He was detained without anyone being injured.

The last point would seem to be a very good thing and a tribute to the Gardai. The fact that they are now suffering from PTSD might not be great publicity though. Also does the incident raise questions of how our authorities would cope in a more serious incident.

Deer hunters IME use 308 calibre bolt action rifles. A bullet discharged from one of these has more than enough energy to kill a person at a range of 1000+ metres so even a drunk firing one in random directions is far from a joke.

https://www.rte.ie/news/ulster/2022/0125/1275873-glenties-court/

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[Deleted User]

Training, involving such scenarios take place all the time in AGS, also joint training involving DFB, occasionally army units also take place.

for an unarmed police force, gardai have a large amount of firearms holders. The have set up armed response units all over the country in the last few years.

I would think they are fairly well prepared, considering no-one can see into the future. Of course, the fact that this incident was ended with no injuries is one of the best indications of how they react.

Danzy

They should have had the weaponry to take him out at distance.

Hand guns were no use in this situation and it could have been a mass casualty event.

seamus

Tbh, how does any authority cope with mass shooting incidents? They don't. There's nearly one every day in the US, a country awash with weapons. Many mass shootings in the US have occurred in places where there were cops, armed security and civilians in the building. Look at France, UK, Germany. These incidents result in widespread death and destruction before coming to an end.

The reality is that there is very little to be done in a mass shooting scenario except pick up the pieces after. If someone stockpiles weapons and picks a busy target (think the gig massacre in Paris), then they can kill a lot of people in five minutes, before any police force can reasonably react. We have armed units with the ability to be in most parts of the country pretty quickly, so we would seem to be about as prepared as we can be.

The best defence against mass shooting incidents are robust mental health supports, diversity and inclusion programmes, dedicated anti-terror units and severely tight gun laws.

[Deleted User]

And we can't move Donegal into a more accessible part of the country either!

mikethecop

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118534051#Comment_118534051

Each ASU unit is equipped with MP7 or MP9s , which would do the job ,

In this situation they seemed to do well and end it all with out any deaths or injury's and out come unlikely in most country's ,

unfortunately this event is unlikely to result in a significant jail term if any and show once again how poor our criminal justice system is

kirving

Whatever about mass shootings, which are inherently difficult to stop, even by armed police forces, I'd be much more worried about knife attackers here.

The Metropolitan Police did an incredible jobs in stopping the London Bridge and Borough Market attacks in under 10 minutes, I don't think we have that kind or readiness in Dublin.

corner of hells

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118537601#Comment_118537601

Metropolitan Police were not involved in either attack , City of London police and a plain clothes Transport Police officer were involved in both the 2017 and 2019 attacks.

How would you Gardai wouldn't be capable of dealing with similar events ?

Gatling

Every Garda station should have long guns ( AR rifles)and Garda trained to use them on a regular basis,this shows another area where we are lacking ability ,it would have taken an hour for an armed response to get to the scene,that's not good enough, Hope some wannabe jihadist doesn't get inspired to have a go being they could cause serious casualties before ever facing a response

[Deleted User]

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118537748#Comment_118537748

But detective have guns and each district stations have detectives on duty. There is no need to wait an hour for Armed Response Unit.

What do the ARU do in between calls? Do they do regular garda work?

Gatling

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118538048#Comment_118538048

But detectives only have a 9mm pistol,if you're going to against a headbanger with a high power rifle or semi automatic rifle or shotgun ,they would be at a massive disadvantage and their basic vests wouldn't stop a high power round ,

They should have access to semi automatic or select fire rifles fitted with optics ,

As far as I know the ARU don't do normal Garda duties ,I know they patrol certain areas ,open to correction on that

[Deleted User]

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118538081#Comment_118538081

I thought regular detectives had access to Uzis or something as well. I know there is a problem with ARU coverage. Hard to cover rural areas and ensure a speedy response from them.

Gatling

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118538112#Comment_118538112

H&k mp7s still only a pistol caliber good for anything fairly close range ,but as another poster said earlier hunting rifles can hit and kill targets up to 800 meters + depending on the caliber , while the Mp7 is a modern and effective weapon your not hitting anything at rifle ranges especially with a small red dot optic fitted

[Deleted User]

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118538081#Comment_118538081

The ASU/RSU have 24/7 cover.

They are well trained and resourced. It's not possible to have the entire rural country covered at all times. And various reports over the years have recommended that gardai implement this system and detectives should not.carry long arms.

Gatling

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118538138#Comment_118538138

They should have access to them for emergency situations,they should look at the way the SAS response to terror attack s in the UK they arrive by car , motorcycle and helicopter.

And yes I know it's not the same thing and we have the army ranger Wing that would deal with terror attacks ,but if the eru had access to a helicopter they could deploy to rural areas more rapidly ,

The idea that a person or persons with firearm could run amok for an hour before help arrived is a little scary in this day and age

kirving

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118537687#Comment_118537687

Wikipedia says they were, perhaps it's incorrect.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2017_London_Bridge_attack

”A total of 46 rounds were fired by three City of London and five Metropolitan Police officers.”

Where did I say that the Gardai weren't "capable"? I said "readiness". It's not an unreasonable conclusion, armed police are a much more common sight in London than Dublin.

Also, I said I don't "think", not that I know.

[Deleted User]

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118538177#Comment_118538177

AGS have a helicopter, which the ERU can have access to.

Detectives in stations in the UK do not even carry weapons daily. They have specialised firearms units, like AGS.

Gatling

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118538199#Comment_118538199

It's a small helicopter not Best suited to carrying 6-8 well armed officers and any emergency kit

[Deleted User]

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118538219#Comment_118538219

They don't need to carry so many. That's what regional support units are for.

Timing belt

The question that needs to be asked is why an individual like this was given a licence in the first place.

They also need to ask about the storage of the weapon and ammo. As leaving a high powered weapon in a car overnight must be questionable!!!

Gatling

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118538236#Comment_118538236

That's not how they operate they don't just rock to an active situation with little equipment and 3 /4 lads .

But I believe they can use one of the army helicopters if required ...makes sense with the amount of Kit they would deploying with

TooTired123

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118537601#Comment_118537601

Those 3 guys were lying dead on the street like the dogs that they were in less then 8 minutes. Astonishing efficiency.

[Deleted User]

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118538272#Comment_118538272

That's what regional support units are for.

Gatling

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118538301#Comment_118538301

They still have to bring gear needed and that includes armour , weapons,comms and first responders trauma kits,

It's not so simple as going and waiting for another team to bring gear ,

[Deleted User]

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118538338#Comment_118538338

What do you think the armed support units do, exactly?

They are highly trained,.highly armed, and have their own resources. You could probably get more information on the Garda website.

Gatling

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118538357#Comment_118538357

Does everything have to be an argument,

They deploy with their own gear

mikethecop

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118538301#Comment_118538301

regional , one maybe two cars covering 4 or 5 counties and enormous areas and wait times ,

BrianD3

I'd assume that a mass shooting would occur at short range and those H+K firearms that some Gardai carry would be very effective, Assuming those Gardai arrive in good time.

AFAIK, only bolt action 308s are licensed in Ireland. If you want a semi auto it needs to be a much less powerful calibre like a .22 or a semi auto shotgun. Both lethal at short ranges.

Seeing as mass shooters in other countries are often law abiding (until they aren't) the type of firearms available legally is relevant.

I mentioned the very long lethal range of the typical deer hunting rifle really just to illustrate that a drunk eejit from Carlow wouldn't have to point it at someone nearby to kill them.

[Deleted User]

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118538383#Comment_118538383

What does that even mean?

[Deleted User]

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118538389#Comment_118538389

Yep, but it's better then having none.

SupaCat95

What is it with Carlow People this week?

Firstly who signed the lisence for him to get this sort of weapon?

Secondly, Will his gun club be punished? I presume you have to be a member of a gun club if you dont have enough land to shoot it on?