I have an academic research paper open in front of me....
It says if population increases by 1% house prices increase by 1.4%.....
Top paragraph in abstract....
https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/journal-of-demographic-economics/article/abs/do-demographic-changes-affect-house-prices/EDCD6AA8D40A41F19D9D24B4AD4F053A
Ah Klaz!! When an Irish person/couple are trying to buy a house and constantly outbid by a CoCo or NGO Housing Authority, using their own taxes against them, it has a HUGE impact on the ability of Irish people to buy their own places.
One hardly needs to have studied economics to understand the principles of supply and demand, nor anyones ability to purchase goods and services. Although to be fair to you I’m sure you covered more than just the basics of economics, whereas many Irish people didn’t, and don’t understand, and don’t care for economics, which is why they find themselves in positions where their ability to purchase goods and services is limited by their means, and they get resentful about it, looking to blame anyone and anything else as opposed to acknowledging that they are responsible for their circumstances in an economy where they didn’t just emerge from a bubble.
I’m sure everyone is familiar with the concept of ‘expectation vs reality’ too.
If you deported every immigrant in the morning, it would put a large dent in our housing issue, so I totally disagree. I'm 31 years old, and have been all but forced to live in a situation I don't want to live in, because I can't get accommodation elsewhere, and I've tried several different counties. Of course governments are to blame, but when it comes down to it it's a numbers game, and mass immigration adds thousands to those numbers every year. It doesn't matter if it's renting or buying, people are struggling to get either.
No Jack, you're absolutely vital on a thread like this. We need people like you to expose how naive the arguments of the mass immigration supporters are.
Well done, keep up the good work.
Many years ago, when I studied economics, we were told that the price was something determined by Supply and Demand, increased demand, in this case for houses, no doubt has an effect on the price of houses.
The individual people are not to blame, no.
But clearly immigration adds to demand for housing.
If there were severe restrictions on non-EU immigration, then clearly housing demand would be less than now.
Irish people can't get houses due to far stronger reasons than that of immigrants. I'm sorry but I don't see immigrants as being an important consideration, except possibly their presence on the social housing lists, which they shouldn't be eligible for, in the first place. But social housing doesn't have much of an impact on the ability of Irish people to buy property.
The housing crisis is a domestic problem due to the short-sighted policies of successive governments, and the dodgy bureaucracy of the State institutions. Blame of the banks is another real consideration.
Immigrants will slightly increase demand for properties, but they're not stopping Irish people from purchasing. If migrants were to disappear tomorrow, Irish people would still have the same problems with buying or renting properties. So.. sadly to say, I kinda have to agree with Bubbly.. although I don't agree with the way he's trying to argue it.
There’s no lying to win an argument there. I’d say the same to anyone, on the sidelines or not. Quite literally what you’re doing is playing to the peanut gallery, imagining that there’s an audience greater than the small handful of contributors to this thread. I don’t think there is tbh, your efforts are as good as pissing into the wind - only the people who already share your opinions agree with you.
The ‘if’ in that assertion is doing all the heavy lifting there, notwithstanding the fact that it is actually dependent upon whether or not immigration actually does push down wages. There are a few different factors involved, but it’s generally agreed that the effect of immigration on wages is negligible. In the article you linked to, they appear to be making the claim that there wouldn’t be enough immigrants coming to Ireland to push wages down, but your point is obviously that if wages are pushed down, it impacts on anyones ability to purchase property. Well yes, it does. I don’t think anyone could disagree with such a vague statement of fact.
There are no immigrants making it harder for others to buy houses
Obviously, they do. They increase the demand which increase the prices for both rentals and sales, this is how it works. We shouldn't blame them, it's not their (or our, I'm one) fault, but we can't ignore the facts.
Yeah, that's right. Mass immigration doesnt make it harder for Irish to get houses. *rolls eyes*
All that economic stuff about higher demand feeding into higher prices obviously doesnt apply to house prices *rolls eyes*
There are no immigrants making it harder for others to buy houses. unless you are suggesting that all houses sold are to foreign nationals and that Irish are somehow excluded?
You make a lot of statements on here, but rarely answer any questions. If you are British, as you say, why are you so worried about the Irish and what they do or don't do? Or Europe? Europeans build Europe, according to you, so you consider yourself to be European? Did you vote in the brexit referendum?
what multiculturalism did you see in the Middle East and what exactly are you an expert in?
If your wages are being pushed down by immigrants, it impacts your ability to purchase property.
https://www.independent.ie/business/jobs/not-enough-migrants-arriving-to-keep-pay-down-central-bank-38356212.html
Foreign workers in service industry jobs - where are they living?
They must be in houses with 10+ people sharing, and each paying 200 - 300 each.
No way a low income worker is paying 600 - 700 per month.
For anyone on the sidelines reading this thread, here you go, here is one of the supporters of mass immigration saying that mass immigration does not make it harder for you to buy a house.
Dublin must be about 20% immigrant. Of course this level of immigration has an impact on the ability of irish people to get houses.
Supporters of mass immigration basically lie to win their arguments.
Look Brexit was pushed through precisely because a huge swath of the British public were and still are p***ed off with the politicians, the political classes, the elites, the media celebs and the media.
Now some of it is indeed the old English jingoistic we had an empire but some of it is just people fed up.
And yes part of that was with immigration, although in their case a chunk of it was Eastern Europeans.
If you were a savy politician in this country you should be looking at two things with showed really what a lot of people think.
The first was the citizenship referendum. The Irish people were tired that people were abusing a loophole and basically pulling the pi**. That yes was only campaigned by FF/PDs, FG sat on the sidelines and Greens, Labour and Shinners all campaigned against it.
People should remember how patriotic those shinners really are.
The second was Peter Casey.
Casey was going nowhere, was actually pretty pathetic as a candidate, but he uttered some home truths about another protected and beloved group of the politicians, media, celebs and NGOs.
He finished with over 22% of the votes despite the fact he was generally awful as a candidate, despite him being hounded by the media and every other shade of politician and every liberal loon in the country. Anyone that dared support him publicly was hounded yet over 22% of the electorate found his message something they could agree with and get behind.
The reason the likes of Renua, National Party or any of these so called right wing parties never get anywhere is they usually are tied in with religious nutjobs that want us to resurrect archbishop McQuade and want to roll back on abortion, divorce, same sex, homoesexuality legislation.
And they usually want to leave EU.
All of that makes them unpalatable to most of the electorate.
But if sooner or later someone comes along with social liberal ideas, but tough on bogus immigration, crime, career welfareists, etc they will start making headway.
throughout the world there is growing disconnect between mainstream politicians/political parties, the connected ones like big business, media, NGOs and huge swaths of the electorate that always end up paying for the merry-go-round the aforementioned ones gain most.
Really? Which Irish people?
Mass immigration has no impact whatsoever on anyones ability to purchase property. That’s entirely the responsibility of the individual, based on their means to be able to pay for it.
I’m more amazed by your ability to determine anyones citizenship just by looking at them tbh.
Well obviously increased demand from immigrants puts pressure on the housing stock....
Irish people cant get houses partly because of immigrants.....
What resources did we take from foreign lands? I dont have any? Maybe people in Ireland have attics full of ivory and African diamonds?
You walk about dublin, it was Irish people that built the roads, houses, docks etc. It generally wasnt immigrants that built ireland....
We've been giving charity to places like africa for a hundred years. If we did owe these places anything the debt has been fully repaid....
There is much more then immigration at fault with our housing market. I'm sure They are living somewhere. You live somewhere do you not?
They are not to blame.
Mass immigration obviously makes it harder for Irish to get houses.....
When I get on the Luas I'm amazed at how many non Europeans there are.... they are obviously staying in houses...
What you’re attributing to multiculturalism though, is actually not the success or failure of multiculturalism. It’s the admittedly abysmal failure of social policies. It wasn’t immigrants who decided upon those policies, nor did they have any influence on those policies.
The people who came up with those policies, and the people who are responsible for their implementation, are politicians who were elected by the people who were entitled to vote in national and European elections. It definitely wasn’t immigrants who put them in positions of power!
No, it’s not an argument for multiculturalism, it’s an example of an incontrovertible fact, as opposed to Fandymo’s opinions which they are putting forward and simply declaring them to be fact.
I should certainly hope so! It’s the whole point of progress - good for some people, not so good for others, and a real disaster for some people.
Overall though, have standards of living improved in Europe in the last ten years? Depends upon what criteria anyone is choosing to factor into any assessment. Again there will undoubtedly be considerable disagreement between the two extremes who are using criteria and evidence which suits their purposes to make their points.
Direct provision in Ireland, just to take one example, has either been a disaster, but in it’s time in operation, it’s made some people incredibly wealthy, and it’s created employment opportunities which will now be closed off as DP is wound down and alternative arrangements are made to integrate and accommodate refugees, asylum seekers, immigrants, into Irish society. Will that change the social landscape of Ireland? Undoubtedly. What positives and negatives will come from that will depend upon the positions people already hold. They’re unlikely to change their positions, so I don’t imagine immigrants will be any better represented in Irish politics than they aren’t already, any more than they aren’t represented in other European countries, even on other continents.
ohh, 1,000 years, we’ll all be sorry we didn’t listen to you when we’re a minority in our own country.
Fact - We’ll all be dead by then.
@One eyed Jack
Is this an argument for multiculturalism, that the worst repercussions won't be felt by us but the Irish people of the future ? Amazing.
You must be against all this environmental, reduce, re-use, recycle stuff too I imagine 😂
I find the posts about multiculturalism quite interesting, because it would be so simple to defend multiculturalism, if it had been a success on mainland Europe.
But it hasn't been a success. Almost all European nations have done a 180 on their attitudes towards multiculturalism. Germany, which was the champion of multiculturalism for decades, has said that it was a mistake. France has stated their own failures at integration of migrant groups. In spite of the EU mandate to encourage integration within Europe, all nations are reporting failures in managing to do so. Just as Germany, with one of the best educational systems in Europe, have reported difficulties in getting migrant groups to learn German, and adopt German cultural behaviors. Denmark has begun altering the rights of migrants in-country, and drastically reducing the amount of immigration from non-EU nations. And I could go on, pointing to all the nations that previously encouraged immigration, and lauded the supposed benefits of multiculturalism, but have since altered their policies dramatically away from past policies. Why would they do that, if it had all been the success that some here desperately want to believe?
But Ireland will be different... somehow. In spite of the fact, and it is a fact, that Ireland is following in the footsteps of European nations, in the pursuit of integration, adopting the "approved" action plans of European countries, even though those plans have failed. Yes, some success in integration has occurred, but in reality, considering the numbers of people involved, there have been far more failures.
And yet, it's not simply that Ireland will be different. It's the near constant dismissal of what's been happening for decades. The rise of ghettos, and ethnic enclaves is a reality. It's happened consistently across all European nations as foreign populations increase. So too has social unrest and crime.. (no, I'm not saying all migrants are criminals or break the law), but there is a remarkable desire by some to ignore the waves of trouble that have manifested in Europe over the last few decades.. bending over backwards to find excuses for migrant groups being involved.
I'm always a bit bemused by the posts which laud multiculturalism as being some kind of wonderful thing, because it shouldn't be hard for them to prove that it is... and yet... where are all these posts proving that it is a success. Not vague feel-good posts.. but posts that are able to point to the definite success and benefits of multiculturalism.
It shouldn't be hard to prove it.. no?
You don't think Germany, France, Greece, Italy are any different to what they were 10 years ago??
It turns out the electorate has a very short memory and will vote for anyone who they imagine will serve their interests best. If there were any interest in anti-immigration policies, the National Party would be tearing up the polls, but they’re not. Instead, they’re languishing at the bottom, which isn’t surprising as the party is made up entirely of bottom feeders.
More facile tripe. For a UK comparison, UKIP would be the closest we have to NP, and they've never done very well, likely due to how they approach they topic, or other issues attached, not because there's no demand at all. As we seen with Brexit, there was a large demand for something to be done about immigration.
Another issue, is that the topic has been made all but taboo in Ireland by our masters, it's literally never spoken of in anything but positive terms, which makes it hard to even discuss the issue, never mind making it a voting issue. In every country where anti mass immigration sentiment has grown, it's grown at least somewhat due to it being an issue that gets aired on radio/TV, which results in discussion and debate on the topic, in Ireland we seem years away from that. If you hadn't noticed, media in Ireland is possibly the least diverse in the world, there's no real debate on any contentious issues, and all the talking heads all have the same views. Few countries mirror us in such a manner, and it's the very reason many issues that should be topical never get to leave the ground, as the Irish airwaves are completely controlled. How are people meant to even know that certain issues are issues when they never even hear about them? General news reporting on crime certainly doesn't help either, when every outlet goes out of it's way to try and hide the truth about the demographics involved in said crime.
And once again, as has already been said by others, Ireland was late to the party, so the reaction will come later too if there ever is one.
The conversation will be no different, and if we’re both still alive then, you’ll be telling me give it another 10 years. I could give it another 100 years and we still wouldn’t be anything close to other countries in Europe, which I don’t imagine will remain static in that time either.
The same arguments you’re making now, are the same arguments that were made 20 years ago, 50 years ago, 100 years ago already. Waiting, always waiting… as opposed to acknowledging that you have already been proven wrong in the present when the same arguments you’re making now, were already made 100 years ago.
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