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Climate Bolloxolgy.

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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 6,417 ✭✭✭roosterman71


    That's my experience in our own conditions. The hybrid purchase was a bad buy. Plus it's tiny inside and the boot is tiny too and isn't practical really for us anymore.

    Full electric is adequate for the majority in the country I'd reckon. Including ourselves it has to be said. The purchase premium is the real kick in the nuts and the pay back is years away to break even vs an ICE of similar standards.

    I think people need to track their miles and distances to have a factually correct view on how they use their cars. Like myself I would have said that electric wouldn't suit me. But in reality I've only driven over 100km 54 times in the last 3 years, with the biggest drive 316km which most electric cars would easily handle nowadays.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,012 ✭✭✭✭cnocbui


    Great saving on running costs - but only if you can charge it at home - not such a great saving on purchase price, though.

    Before Gormley and the Greens deliberatly increased the countries pollution and made petrol owners pay higher motoring costs so diesel owners could pay lower taxes while they polluted more, we were looking to buy a car so ran the numbers on 3 different car brands comparing diesels with petrols, matched for acceleration performance. Because of the higher initial purchase price, even though they got higher milage, the diesels didn't break even in cost until around or past 100,000 km driven. Didn't even factor in higher servicing costs either.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,227 ✭✭✭✭Say my name


    I admire her work ethic. But not all these things recently and how she got the job.

    I do get that feeling of insincerity. But I think it's all around her too, they're just out to use people.

    Have well noticed that about her and bord na mona.

    I would have been a bit pro the Green agenda before they came in government but I've nearly gone opposite now and completely browned off with their ilk.

    Money flowing to their supporters in universities and cronyism now highlighted just to keep things secret amongst themselves. I think they're bought and paid for which is far from where the original party was supposed to be founded on. Not sure a party coup would benefit the country though. Those after could be much worse.



  • Posts: 4,503 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    She's ignorant as the day is long. She wrote indefensible things about arson on hills. Tried to defend it likening it to an organic field losing it's organic status because the neighbour had sprayed and drifted. Like the neighbour on the hill is the only human being capable of possessing matches or lighters. The field neighbour will still be the field neighbour and the spray is hardly done by some randomer other by night. That the other shareholders on the hill then should all lose payments due to a fire they had zero to do with.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,386 ✭✭✭alps




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  • Posts: 4,503 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]




  • Posts: 15,801 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    how has the carbon tax since it came in improved what it set out to approve?

    Depends on what you are referring to, emissions I'm guessing, but I'll let you confirm.

    I will say that the carbon tax was way too low for the first few years so it's impact would have been minimal. It's 33.50 per tonne of CO2 now and increasing by 7.50 eur a year for the next few years and that rate of increase is likely to be doubled to 15 eur a year increase after 2030 so its going to have a greater and greater impact as time progresses. If that holds true, by 2040 it'll be around 250 eur a tonne

    Why 2030? Give time for the secondhand EV Market to become established, time for retrofits/upgrades to building stock, heating system replacement, time for PT and active travel network expansion etc

    To your point about it improving things, it's likely there is no data specific to that question yet as everything on emissions, engine type, heating type etc just look at what the data can tell. Only surveys can tell you the "why" people made x, y or z choice but it will have a greater and greater influence on those choices the more it increases



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,012 ✭✭✭✭cnocbui


    Bolloxology indeed: https://www.smh.com.au/business/companies/world-s-first-hydrogen-ship-docks-in-australia-raising-hope-for-a-new-industry-20220120-p59prg.html

    "The world’s first carrier of liquefied hydrogen has arrived at Victoria’s Port of Hastings to pick up its inaugural cargo and transport it to Japan, marking a major milestone for the emerging industry.

    The Suiso Frontier’s upcoming voyage carrying super-cooled liquid hydrogen from a Japanese-Australian consortium’s $500 million pilot project in the Latrobe Valley to Kobe in Japan will be the first worldwide to transport liquid hydrogen by sea to an international market."

    All good so far...except:

    "The Hydrogen Energy Supply Chain (HESC) pilot project, led by a consortium including Japan’s J-Power, Kawasaki Heavy Industries, Shell and AGL, is demonstrating the conversion of Latrobe Valley brown coal into hydrogen gas."

    You couldn't make it up.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 3,405 ✭✭✭green daries


    I agree I'm totally taken aback by the figures says it all really



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,251 ✭✭✭vincenzolorenzo


    Sure this is a good thing? There's centuries worth of coal reserves in the world and by gasifying it and capturing the CO2 you get Hydrogen, the cleanest fuel possible. There are a couple of stumbling blocks at the moment, one of which is the cost of producing hydrogen which makes it a lot dearer than oil or gas. But if we could make hydrogen work it would actually be a game changer.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 20,094 ✭✭✭✭_Brian


    Friend changed their RAV4 for a Hybrid last year... Fuel bill lower, tax lower, insurance lower, payments the same, not sure about maintenance costs...



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,235 ✭✭✭Dinzee Conlee


    What kinda driving would they be doing Brian?

    I mean, would it be rural, motorway, city, etc...

    Going by what I have heard, and what posters above have said - its harder to get the benefit out of the hybrid if you aren't doing urban driving / cruising along at a slow speed...



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,558 ✭✭✭ginger22


    DaCor on here wishing that the secondhand market for electric cars will develop, but secondhand electric cars will be worthless because of the exorbitant cost to replace the batteries as they loose their capacity. Petrol and diesel cars can go on for ever.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 20,094 ✭✭✭✭_Brian


    Maybe 60-80km round trip for work and then whatever weekend stuff with 4 kids, all Cavan/Monaghan roads



  • Posts: 4,503 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    I wonder is there any truth in what I was told the last day, the electric cars lose 20-25% battery power in cold frosty weather?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,386 ✭✭✭alps


    No, they'll be fine if you leave the heating off, and cover up in a big wolly blanket, much like if you were in a pony and trap. Difficult to keep the wi dows defrosted, but maybe the head out the side window would suffice for the type of distance you'd be going anyway..



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,012 ✭✭✭✭cnocbui




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,012 ✭✭✭✭cnocbui



    Not really. The obviously sensible way to generate H2 is by using solar energy, which Australia has an abundance of, to electrolyze water into H2 and O2. Australia's richest person, Andrew Forrest, has some very large scale plans to do just that on a huge scale which has the Germans salivating at the prospect of importing.

    Using coal is just crazy given the available and obvious alternative. A huge problem is the ultra low temperature required to keep H2 liquid at - way colder than for natural gas. All the refrigeration and insulation gear leaves not a lot for the hydrogen and that ship seems to me to carry a ridiculously small quanity for it's size and cost.

    I once tried to calculate the range of that ship if powered by it's cargo, and while I forget the precise figure, it was not very far in ship terms.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,235 ✭✭✭Dinzee Conlee


    Yeah, my mate who got the electric car, said tis very affected by external temp.

    Now, I dont know if its 20% - will ask him, but I remember him saying it definitely affects the calculated distance the car says it has...



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,790 ✭✭✭lalababa


    Hybrids are usually a bit heavy , have a large engine 2lt +, and have poor mpg. Some are plug in. Alot state they do 30/40 miles on a charge when they only do 20. They are probally more polluting (energy wise/efficiency) than your average petrol.

    The only good thing you can say about them..and this is generally what they are designed for...is they can switch to battery in town thus lessening the toxic emissions levels in cities. As time goes by these and full electric vehicles will be the only ones left in to cities.



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  • Posts: 15,801 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    The issues you highlight are one of the main reasons its possible to get grants for pure EV only from Jan 1st this year, PHEV's no longer qualify




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 6,417 ✭✭✭roosterman71


    Mmmm. I hadn't thought about what exactly! Emissions certainly is a good place to start. Has it also forced a change to a less-carbon alternative? Or was it, as I suspect, just another money raising exercise. Wasn't the money supposed to be ring fenced for certain green projects? Did that happen? I recall farming organisations, or maybe TDs going bananas about the recent increase and not putting the money where it was promised



  • Posts: 15,801 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Yeah, as I mentioned, the reason why members of the public make choice x, y or z, you'd need surveys or possibly the census to gather that info. Data regarding emissions has only data on the emissions themselves.

    The way to think of the carbon tax is like the plastic bag levy, the additional cost will drive people to choose something that offers better value.

    As for emissions data itself, I'm on the mobile so screenshots are a pain, but the data, for the different greenhouse gases, is available at links such as these

    One thing to mention, in relation to agriculture, is carbon is not the biggest emission issue, methane and nox are the biggest problems as Ireland is emitting an insane amount. Those are the target for agri to address in the same way transport is tackling carbon.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 6,417 ✭✭✭roosterman71


    Did the public change their ways as a result of the carbon tax? That's not a survey, that must be measurable by facts. From https://www.bonkers.ie/guides/gas-electricity/what-is-carbon-tax/

    The carbon tax is a charge applied to carbon-emitting fuels such as coal, peat, oil and natural gas. Introduced in 2010, the tax is intended to reduce carbon dioxide emissions and is part of Ireland’s strategy to support a greener and cleaner environment.

    Did the introduction of the tax achieve this goal? Have our CO2 emissions dropped? From here (https://datacommons.org/place/country/IRL?category=Climate) looks like a drop between 2010 and 2011 but relatively stable since. So, has it worked?

    From yourself @[Deleted User]

    The way to think of the carbon tax is like the plastic bag levy, the additional cost will drive people to choose something that offers better value.

    It is nothing like the plastic bag levy. When that came in there were many many alternatives to the plastic bag. Not so for ag vehicles, haulage vehicles, etc. It was not possible to change to a ready made alternative



  • Posts: 15,801 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    No argument regarding heavy machinery, the tech is not there yet, but my point stands



  • Posts: 1,743 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    The hybrids are supposedly heavy on fuel on motorways

    They are good for urban driving with the stop start which is good for regeneration of the battery



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,386 ✭✭✭alps


    The methane issue??

    A cow emits 100kg of methane in a full year..

    That's 2,800 kg's of CO2 equivalent for those who want to beef up their objection to cows.

    However the 5 tonnes of grass that cow eats in a year to make the methane, took in over 9 tonnes of CO2 in the year, just to grow.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,757 ✭✭✭Grueller


    But the government need those carbon credits alps to offset for big business so the poor auld cow can't have them.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 3,405 ✭✭✭green daries


    Kinda takes a very large double decker bus and drive's them through all there changes and charge's



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,558 ✭✭✭ginger22




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