Google Nest E €115 (€99+postage) delivered to Ireland from French retailer FNAC/Darty:
https://www.fnac.com/Google-Nest-Thermostat-E/a12896556/w-4
ah great, thats around the size of it, maybe a bit smaller so I should be grand. Thanks again.
It would be on the back. Its unlikely to be stronger than 2kw. The largest I see in Screwfix is 2kw, 0.84m wide. 0.44m hight or 34" by 18"
Thanks @deezell that explains it very well. I think Id probably go with the smart wall spur outlet even though its a lot more expensive.
With the panel heater Im just guessing it is 2kw, do they normally have their kws written on them somewhere? I cant see anything on the front or side but just wanted to check it isnt above 3kw before I go ahead.
2 kw is well within the range of a 13a socket, which nominally can manage a pure resistive load of close to 3Kw, i.e, 13A by 230V is 2.99Kw. No reason you couldn't have a 2kw panel on a plug and socket, but a panel heater is designed for wall fixing, so its not going anywhere, and a spur box is ideal for a neat interference free fitting, no danger of a partly withdrawn plug to cause overheating of the plug and socket. If the spur box has space inside, you could fit a SonOff relay internally, rather than a cumbersome socket, smart plug-in socket and three pin plug. Alternatively get a smart wall socket like this, only about €14.
https://www.amazon.co.uk/BSEED-Socket-Compatible-Alexa-Google/dp/B07PPBFRMT/ref=mp_s_a_1_5?crid=BE1AS6M0BA8C&keywords=smart+single+wall+socket&qid=1643150939&sprefix=smart+single+wall%2Caps%2C97&sr=8-5#
A smart wall spur outlet is not a common item, quite expensive, about €50
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Switch-Controller-Electric-Radiators-Timeswitch/dp/B0937JQDT6/ref=asc_df_B0937JQDT6/?tag=googshopuk-21&linkCode=df0&hvadid=501097570217&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=674310814189886431&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=m&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=20481&hvtargid=pla-1321914321796&psc=1
Or does anyone know of an electric blanket that only has a plug that you switch on/off at the socket on the wall? I know there are Alexa enabled electric blankets for sale but the Silentnight one is 120 euro when regular ones are 20-30 euro
Meant to update the thread, I managed to find an electric blanket that didnt have the problem of having to press buttons on a control unit to turn it on. Its a Silentnght (comfort range) that Aldi were selling for 25 quid in December (King size, other sizes were cheaper). Anyway the control unit just has a slider on it to turn on/off and to the 3 power settings so I just leave it on and then control it via Alexa and a smart plug. Its a great job to have the bed heated up before bed without having to go up two flights of stairs just to flick a switch.
Anyway was wondering if anyone knows of solution to automate an electric panel heater. It hasnt got a plug and socket, instead the wire goes into a switch directly on the wall and then an orange light lights up when its on. Is this because (like an oven) it is way up there is wattage, probably 2,000kw? Is there a safety reason not to change it out for a plug and socket and then attach a smart socket to automate it?
Switch to Energia for free Netatmo, or Bord Gais for free Hive. If your original Netatmo was a freebie, you may have exhausted your smart controls grant entitlement, which is a bit of a scam by some energy suppliers who are sticking in cheap single zone stats and pulling back multiples of its cost in the pretence that they've made your home heating more efficient. If you have to pay, Drayton Wiser single zone is good value, at €169 in Screwfix, Hive or Tado wireless starter about €199, but Currys have the Tado wireless starter for only €149, a bargain
https://www.currys.ie/ieen/smart-tech/smart-tech/smart-home/smart-heating/tado-wireless-smart-thermostat-starter-kit-v3-10217342-pdt.html?
EPH wireless is a just a basic stat with wireless and app, no smarts. A replacement Netatmo kit about €189, less if you could just buy the stat and pair it to your existing receiver, but I haven't seen it listed as an add on, unlike wiser, tado etc.
Heatmiser Neokit 1 single zone is a decent system, about €225, all the schedules can done via the stat display, its a bit fussy though.
Climote and Hub controller are often touted on Energy switching offers, but are very limited products, no Google integration, no smart features either, despite the wondrous clairvoyant powers claimed by the latter.
Get the Tado while still on Deal in Currys, it even has a HW relay if you ever want to control HW only by app. It's a steal at that price.
Looking for a smart thermostat for my mother in law. Nothing too fancy, she (and I) really just want:
Her existing Netatmo died (burnt out), so there's a bit of a rush on things. Her electrician recommended the "EPH system" though from the looks of it it seems a bit archaic looking, and overly complex to setup. Also no google home integration from what I see.
She's due to change her energy provider too, so perhaps a deal from one of them if there's anything decent going.
Thanks! What i might do is print out the diagrams and accidently leave them at the printer so the electrical engineer in work who offered to help me move stuff will see it, question what it's for and hopefully offer to help! It doesn't seem too bad but would be easier for somebody with experience! Yeah we were very lucky as the owner wanted a quick sale so said if he got asking he'd out a new roof on the garage and a new garage door so we just offered it there and then and got the keys 2 months and a day later :-) Thanks again for all your tips and advice, really appreciated.
I just installed a Tado wired starter kit plus an extra wired Tado thermostat to replace some Danfoss rmt devices.
It was pretty straight forward.
Thanks again Deezell for the advice on the Tado.
Ben Dunne done an extension for Michael Lowry in Tipp, but I don't think it was a Tado !
Any decent sparks should be able to follow the Timer to Tado ext kit wiring. Both have mains in, and then it's just a switched Live out from the extension kit relay(s) to connect to the timer outs, one for CH and one for HW. All the other stuff with the app and the wall stat is DIY, no wiring involved other than plugging in the Internet bridge to the router with a short network cable and a phone style mains power adaptor.
Does anyone know of someone in North kerry who could install a tado extension kit for me to replace a timer?
Again, it's simpler than you think. You'll just need to physically replace the H37XL with the wiser 3 channel controller WT734R. In an ideal world the baseplates would be identical and the wiring schematic the same, but there are differences in the base plates and the scheme. The Horstman base plate from the left has an Earth parking terminal first, then N, L, CH1 ON, OFF, CH2 ON, OFF, HW ON, OFF.
The wiser baseplate has no earth terminal, and no OFF terminals. From the left its N, L, CH1 ON, HW ON, CH2 ON, and a spare terminal which can be used to park Earth wires. Assuming your system has three valves, one for each zone, then there will be three wires only to the ON terminals on the H37XL. These power the valves, which in turn trigger the boiler, so you don't need to go near it. Heres the schematics.
Horstmann
WISER.
When you get a chance, lift the H37XL off its base plate, usually a single bottom screw to loosen, then it hinges up and off. Take a snap of the current wiring and post it, and also a snap of the terminal side of the controller, These controllers can have a gravity mode link, so you'd need to be certain your HW is valve controlled and the HW switch is not in the gravity mode setting. (gravity mode is where HW always heats for any of the three timers, not just the HW timer, and only the CH zones have valves). If you see 3 motorised valves in the plumbing, then you can be certain you have three independent zones and not gravity HW.
Congrats on your new home BTW, not easy to negotiate in the middle of a pandemic. I had two sons move into new builds last year in Feb and May, no joke with all the restrictions, builders only barely on site,etc so I know what the feeling is like.
@deezell I have finally gotten the keys! I bought the Drayton wiser Kit 3 so was wondering when you'd a chance would you be able to guide me with wiring diagram for the ROB2.2 Firebird C26 90K, hopefully the burner is the right part! I have never tried to get the info for a boiler before!
No hurry as lots to sort out and move to keep me busy for a good while!
Thanks for some more great advice, nice to have a plan! I'll keep an eye on Drayton prices but won't purchase anything till I move in and confirm boiler model and compatbility. Better value all right, and even though you mentioned previously I forgot about it!
I'm making a list of things for an electrician to make the visit efficient, I've purchased a wired ring doorbell and the transformer needed for that so can get these two done at the one visit.
There's a whiff of bs alright. In a properly wired zoned system, the zone valves control the firing of the boiler, not a 'switch'. The power to trigger the boiler comes from microswitches built into the motorised valves. The live signals to select a zone, from a stat, a switch or a timer, only operate the valves, never directly to the boiler SL in. If no valves are open, the boiler doesn't fire.
Even if the HW circuit is plumbed open, heating for any zone call, (common enough in gravity HW systems), it should have a cylinder stat to interrupt the live from whichever dedicated timer or switch selects HW only. If all 3 zones have a zone valve, it's a relatively simple matter to plumb a low flow capacity bypass pipe from the heating flow and return at the boiler. In the unlikely event that the boiler fires when all three properly wired zone valves are closed, the boiler flow will just cycle at the boiler limit temperature. Alternatively a towel rail or similar can be directly plumbed across the flow return pipes.
You need your wiring looked at by someone who understands S plan zone wiring, and you're correct getting a 3 channel controller/timer to supply individual Switched Live for each zone, CH1, CH2 and HW. If there is no valve for HW, it's SL can go through a cylinder thermostat and from there is combined with the CH SLs from the CH zone valves relay microswitches. The boiler then cannot fire unless at least one call for heat is live, or there is faulty or poorly designed wiring.
S plan wiring.
For two CH zones, an extra zone valve and stat is simply added in, with three orange wire SLs going to the boiler firing.
I have a unvented cylinder heating system with 2 zones for the rads.
I have 2 wall Thermostats for the rads and can either have the rad zones off or on with a switch. When the both zones are off and the boiler is on the, wayer diverts to the hot water tank coil I cant stop the water from heating the tank as there is no mortizesd valve and thermostate fiited to it. I was told by the plumber who fitted the system that I can't have a thermostate for the tank as the water has to loop around the system. If the 2 zones vavle were closed and if there also was closed valve on the cylinder and the boiler was running it would not be good.
Is this correct or is that bullshit as I want to fit a new app controlled 3 zone programmer and thermostate along with fitting a cylinder thermostate.
I'd recommend the Drayton wiser Kit 3. It has two stats for the CH zones, and a timer channel for HW. The stats are wireless to the Drayton controller, which is almost a pin for pin swap for the existing 3 channel controller, even though you don't yet know what model it is. When you do, I'll post you the wiring diagrams of your existing controller and the Drayton wireless receiver, this will be the only wiring needed, and would require an electrician for about half an hour. You can buy Drayton TRV's in at very good prices from time to time, currently €48.45 in Screwfix.ie, so a wiser two CH zone thermostat kit, 3 zone receiver, and a pair of TRV's would set you back €253.95 and €96.90, a total of €350.85. This is a two stats CH system plus HW control, compared to the Evo you listed which is a single stat CH system, without a HW relay, for about €335 with exchange, vat difference and assuming free delivery. If you up the evo to an additional stat and two more relays to give 3 channel control, 2 CH and 1 HW, the prices are substantially different.
In terms of using Tado, the tado wireless system has two relays, one for one Tado CH stat, and one for the HW timings. In a zoned system, the receiver's don't connect to the boiler directly, they connect to zone valves which in turn trigger the boiler. Your system most likely has 3 zone valves, you can combine both CH into 1 as you say, controlled overall by the single Tado stat, with a level of individual control using TRV's. HW control on the Tado is achieved via the receiver (extension kit) HW relay, the actual tado wall stat has no function in HW control, but is required as the zone relay for the TRVs.
@deezell I didn't get the keys yet but found out there's no thermostat, got the following from the current owner.
"The boiler controller has 3 channels i.e.
- hot water
- heating zone 1
- heating zone 2
I think the the 3 bedrooms,bathroom and front living room are in zone 2, but just turn on one zone at a time to find out.
The radiators have individual thermostatic valves TRVs."
So a wireless tado system would be the way forward I'd assume? But the issue would be the hot water then, as I'm guessing a wireless tado system connects directly to the water? So i'd either have to join both zones up on the one wire, and control with the TRV's and use the other tado for hot water?
Or get the honewell evohome, which although more expensive has cheaper TRV's. Thermostat, boiler relay and 2 radiator heads for £279.
Either way I'm thinking I'll need an electrician, I can wire a plug but that's about it!
I've noticed that link doesn't take you to the EI offer page, just to the Google store. Odd, the offer page came up in a search with that url.
This one also, which quotes the EI deal.
it was updated in December last, but if the deal is over, its over.
That would be the case if the timer interrupts the permanent live supply to the boiler. I do notice an extra grey wire connected to the live in on the Flash timer, I'm curious if this is connected to the boiler to give it's controller permanent power. It depends on the complexity of the controller, but generally switched live going off would at first just remove power to the oil valve, with the motor running on for a short time to eliminate residual flue gasses. Some controllers might also overrun the their internal circulation pump live out in order to cool the water jacket. The burner used in the firebird outdoor does not have any display panels, whereas their indoor version of the C26 does, so jacket max temperature setting is permanently displayed, and error codes etc.can be read off. I have a C26 indoor myself, I can't remember when I installed it if the circulation pump output was just a straight jumper to the SL in, but I wired it with a permanent live and a SL for proper operation, I would expect the outdoor one to be similar.
Having said that, its probably not critical, the entire device is outdoors, so there's no risk of flue gases indoors, and the internal limit thermostat would be wired to cycle the boiler correctly by cutting the oil in advance of the fan, while the pump would also keep running. Check where that gray wire is going. In the end, your stat or it's receiver is just required to connect to the live in and SL out currently wired to the Flash, the brown wires. You can leave the Flash in situ, just run a short pair to the stat/receiver of your choice, plus a L N pair for power if your stat receiver has mains power.
I have been playing around with the heating system since this very helpful post. The boiler behaves the exact same way when you throw the mains switch at the top as when you move the timer switch (between constant on and constant off). In both cases, it just switches the boiler off, stops the firing cycle and any circulation. I assume this is down to wrong wiring somewhere?
Electric Ireland no longer offer the Nest, just the climote
Electric Ireland offer for existing customers btw. And it's the Nest 3rd gen, the fancy one with mains powered heatlink and HW relay should you ever figure if your system can do HW only. There's meant to be a free nest mini with this atm also.
https://nest.com/ie/cms/energy-partners/
Live comes in at 1 on the top. SL out at 4 on the bottom, 2 and 3 are linked Neutrals. With the Nest E you just connect L and SL to the Com and NO terminals of the heatlink. No need for neutral as it runs on batteries.
@deezell: thank you, that is a massively helpful reply.
You are right that the system is currently operated by throwing the switch over the timer on and off. That is definitely something I will change immediately.
I don't believe the boiler can be set to only produce hot water (at least I have never found a setting anywhere). The manual switch is for a back boiler behind a fireplace, but I don't think it has relevance to this discussion. There is also an immersion upstairs (on a separate timer) set to run for 2 or so hours a day but I can't see an obvious way to integrate it into this scheme.
Would you say that a Nest would be much a more difficult install than a Hive? Is replacing the flash timer with one of these a feasible DIY job? I had a look into the wiring maps for the Nest for example, but not quite sure what I would expect opening up the flash timer.
We are currently with Electric Ireland, but will take a look into the possibility of switching to Energia and going about it that way.
You operate the boiler I assume by throwing the switch over the timer on and off, and as the timer is set to always on, the boiler burns until you turn it off or until the jacket temperature inside the boiler is reached, which is set by the white insert thermostat inside the boiler, which is as you state, set to the minimum. I'd expect that the timer is wired inside the boiler to the switched live terminal, SL, while the main switch provides power directly to the boiler circuits. There's a distinction between firing the boiler on and off by just turning its power on and off, as against leaving the boiler power on, but controlling the firing by turning the Timer on and off which powers the SL connection to the boiler. The latter is the correct method of operation, as it means the boiler is always powered even when not firing, or when the timed period finishes, and can properly complete the firing cycle by running the fan when the oil burning is turned off, and also allows the pump to continue circulation for a period. Cutting the power in the middle of a burn will not purge the flue gases properly, so all firing should be done by applying power to the SL lnput, while the boiler is left powered on but in standby.
I just wanted to get that out of the way so that I could advise you how to correctly connect a smart stat to your system. It is as easy as running a wired thermostat from the living room to where the old timer is, or if this presents problems getting the wire pair from the stat to there, an easier solution is to use a wireless stat with a receiver relay to supply the SL to the boiler. The receiver relay can replace the Flash timer, and the stat can be wall or stand mounted in the living room. For your setup, I'd recommend the Hive, Drayton Wiser, Netatmo, Tado or Nest as the easiest option. The Hive or Drayton single zone would be an easy install, and probably the best value. The Tado wireless kit costs a bit more than the wired. All of these stats are battery operated, (except Nest, it's powered by a USB mains adapter), while the receiver's (aka hubs, extension kits, heatlinks. etc) are powered from the mains currently supplying the Flash timer, (again, except the Nest E heatlink, which uses a pair of AA batteries).
You don't mention HW, and I notice a manual switch for a back boiler pump, but I won't comment on dual source systems as all you're looking for is a reliable means of replication of the timer switch with a smart stat and app control.
You can get the Netatmo installed free if you switch to Energia, the Hive if you dual fuel switch to Bord Gais, and Electric Ireland will bang in the Nest 3rd Gen stat for €130 ( plus a free Nest mini) if you choose them.
I am looking to do a small smart heating upgrade to my parents house. There is a Firebird C26 26Kw oil condensing boiler, installed outside. Inside the house, there is a switch, which turns the system on/off and a timer (unused). Inside the house, you cannot control the oil boiler setting (the setting on the boiler outside is set to the minimum).
Most of the time, the heating is turned on for an hour or so a few times a day and the house cycles from being too hot with the heating on and a little cold with the heating off.
I would like to to install a smart thermostat where the activation of the heating could be controlled through an app. It would also be nice if a temperature sensor could be installed in the kitchen or sitting room, which could turn off the heating system once a set temperature is reached. No need for individual room controls.
I have been looking at either a Nest Thermostat E or a Tado Wired Smart Thermostat, but was wondering if there are some better options I might be missing?
Yeah I'm too eager! I'll see what the set up is and I might check again with you before I do anything! Thanks for the help
Wait till your in before buying. It could be a timed only system, so the best option for installing zone stats might be wireless.
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