Following on from here
New Munster chat thread folks. warning deserved there. https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=109477571#post109477571
1st start for 22 year old Sean French.
2nd start for 21 year old Jack Crowley.
21st start for 22 year old, Craig Casey.
4th start for 21 year old, Thomas Ahern.
40th start for 24 year old, Fineen Wycherley.
6th start for 22 year old, John Hodnett.
25th start for 24 year old, Gavin Coombes.
But Munster don't back youth.
And that Crowley lad is starting ahead of an auld guy called Healy
22 isn't really that young at provincial level, is it? Hardly George North making his international debut against the Springboks at 18 stuff.
Great to see Crowley getting a start in a big fixture.
I wonder if this was a bit of a reaction to Ben not exactly lighting things up last week. While Crowley is still untested he certainly is capable of making things happen.
I think he's a tremendously exciting player.
Late to the party on this and mildly off topic but what do you think will come of Jack O'Sullivan?
I know he had a stuttering start to his career with some back to back injuries but he looked a super star at underage. Himself and Doris were neck and neck before his injury curtailed his U20 season.
He looks a really athletic player in a similar mould to Max Deegan.
I know he was just re-signed, but where would he fit in Munsters plans going forward with the likes of Coombes and JOD as the obvious choices for 8 and Kendellan and Hodnett having decent success there although both probably more suited to 7 at senior level
Possibly so. I suspect they planned on giving him minutes of the bench last week, but with it being a 2 point game near the end, Healy's range was possibly a reason he was left on.
I like Crowley every time I see him play and have a suspicion he'll be Munster's starting 10 in the medium term.
I said similar to another poster recently, but if your expectation of backing youth is playing 18 year old's against the Springboks, then the issue is with your expectation.
Munster have 7 starter's 24 or under here. By any measure that's backing youth.
There's a lesson in that he's had so many Injuries he started to regress years ago. Man's only 29
Another point to note is that 20 or the 23 match day squad and 13 of the 15 starters are Munster products.
Just 3 from Limerick. really need to sort out that. as great that those numbers are its terrible that Limerick city isnt producing the numbers that it should
They're from Munster, you know the province in which the team is based. Try and be happy once in a while.
So your take away from the Van Gran era was that he backed youth?
I would have:
4 Beirne/Wycherley/Hurley/Edogbo
5 Kleyn/Jenkins/Ahern/O'Connor/Kelly
6 O'Mahony/O'Donoghue/Kendellen
7 Hodnett/Cloete/Daly
8 Coombes/O'Sullivan/Okeke
Jenkins might be good when fit but has been injured non-stop for months now, so for next season I'd expect he will be let him go and hopefully senior contracts will be given out a to both O'Connor and Kelly.
The depth at 6 and 8 is good, and players are flexible to cover 7 too.
Nope, that's just a strawman.
One take away is that Van Graan, both this season and last, has backed youth an awful lot more than has been repeatedly made out on here by a select few. Does that clarify things for you?
That isn't my expectation. I'm just mentioning it for extra context.
I would say - when talking about this level of rugby - making a first start at 19, 20, maybe 21 would be young. 22 would be average at best, in my view. And 23 or older (for someone who has been in the set-up since or before their U20 days) would be on the old side. 18 would be very young and 17 extremely young.
Of course maybe a player focuses on 7s for a bit, or that type of thing, and that delays their introduction.
Saying 25th start for 24-yo Gavin Coombes is an example of backing youth is clutching at straws if you ask me. Barry John retired at 27.
Lets see what age the players are then pick an age younger than that to say that's backing youth
You start by calling for extra context and finish by mentioning Barry John, so I think I'll leave you to it, Richie.
Barry john played in the 60s or something it's a pretty pointless reference.
Coombes will be well past 50 caps by 25 that's plenty. I'd wager a lot of this is more a hit back at the guys on here co stantly claiming munster are not producing homegrown talent. It had been an issue but the squad is full Is quality homegrown players under 25 now the starting 15 tomorrow has 7 of them. Despite that at some point in the next few days some fan of another province will be on here lamenting munsters not backing homegrown talent and just paying for South Africans instead of backing homegrown players
I think what I've spelt out is reasonable. 19-year olds Okeke and Campbell looked good recently. Would it be an example of Munster backing youth in three years time if they were first introduced at the age of 22?
Limerick is the second biggest population base. If Munster is to properly challenge for trophies which i assume you want then it needs to get far more from that base.
The numbers coming from south east, west cork, county clare especially Ennis more than Killaloe etc where there has always been few players are great but Limerick city needs to be sorted out
Is conor murray Injured??
Not in the 23 last week either
How predictable , Lost Ormonds anti limerick bias comes shining through yet again .
Cant ever get behind the province, just nitpicks in a very predictable fashion
Must have taken some right batterings from limerick clubs in his youth :)
I think it's a legitimate question to be fair and doesn't have to be a negative or anti limerick. If limerick was producing talent relative to other areas (pr more than other areas as they would have traditionally) it would be great for the club. I suspect pary of it is the concentration on hurling there currently its probably cyclical and hopefully it comes back around
Can you not enjoy the fact the Munster are fielding a team where the vast majority are home grown products of The Province?
Even by his own metrics, 6 of the 7 would have been young when they got their first start.
Its an extremely legitimate question though as how can Munster ever get past the barriers it continously fails at in the pro game if its second biggest market for age grade playing numbers isnt close to pulling its weight in the development of professional players.
It is nothing to do with being anti Limerick. Which im not. funny as it was claimed a while back here i was anti Cork as well.....
To be fair other parts of the province have only righted themselves in the last few years. Probably not the time to he throwing stones I'm sure they will come right
Doesn’t have to be negative but always is from lost ormond. Hurling is the name of the game in limerick at the moment but the schools system isn’t working in limerick as well as you would think . 150 + players playing SC every year in city schools and very few coming out of it.
Schools need to get the balance right between training to win rugby matches to training to play rugby . At the moment it heavily the former.
Anyway , been covered on other threads and great to see a majority home produced munster team taking the field tomorrow night.
Ya fair enough.
I have fairly high hopes for tomorrow tbh. Hopefully the extra week allows guys to get a bit sharper after the downtime
It's great to see all these young guys in the XV.
However, you could also aski if Snyman, Jenkins, Cloete, Kleyn, Murray, Earls were available, would we be seeing a different XV? Does van Graan really trust the youth or is he just stuck for bodies?
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