Following on from here
New Munster chat thread folks. warning deserved there. https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=109477571#post109477571
I don't want to speculate in the current climate on where Earls and Murray are but they didn't play last week, didn't train this week and aren't playing this weekend. It's fair to assume they're not available.
Conway and JOD played 80 last week and will be playing again next week. That really only leaves Beirne. I don't think leaving out Gallagher counts, since he hardly ever features at the best of times.
Munster told us they wanted to keep Hanrahan but couldn't. Maybe that was bollocks, I don't know.
Again, it's great to see these guys playing but the last six weeks have been a bit freakish and on balance, JVG has not been good for bringing young guys through.
what “Big questions need to be asked “ ?
Bit of a whiff of Irish Indo off of you.
Limerick aren’t producing enough players in your eyes and it seems to really bother only you !
I’m from limerick and while id like if more players came from my own club, it doesn’t bother me as much as id much prefer if munster performed better on a more consistent basis.
If all those players emanated from one, two or three clubs, so what ?
im sure there are more qualified and dedicated people than you or me dong their best to do what’s right for munster rugby., and they are doing a very good job lately in identifying talent. Doesn’t matter what school/club they come from.
its not always a big conspiracy where “big questions need to be asked “
Im not ignoring it and it is fantastic hell ive coached sides against several of those who're in the 23 and seen others playing from age of 13 and up. But the Limerick issue is a major shadow over the excellent work thats going on elsewhere and needs to be questioned whats going on/why its not better
Its a conversion that can be had bur it's fairly depressing for you that a team for an interpro has just been named full of young homegrown talent and your first response is to ignore the team and ask why limericks not producing more players right now
I don't think there's any suggestion Earls and Murray are injured?
And equally could've started Tadhg Beirne ahead of Ahern. Or JOD ahead of Hodnett. Or Conway or Gallagher ahead of French. He even could've started Healy, who's a young guy himself, ahead of Crowley with the Champions Cup games coming up.
But he didn't.
Equally, there's an element of squad planning involved. You know you're going to encounter injuries. JJ Hanrahan, for example, was let go last season in large part because guys like Crowley and Healy were coming up. You can't then say he's only playing them because he's stuck for bodies.
What's a big game? Tomorrow's an interpro as was last week
A team with more players from the second biggest population and playing population base definitely gives the province a far better chance of success. If the team had far more from Limerick there may be more calls for the rest of province to produce more but when one of your main playing basis has went from producing a lot of players to producing very little for the pro rugby team then big questions have to be asked
Actually people like us can help through supporting clubs, getting involved in clubs - coaching and attending coaching courses etc to learn and develop more as a coach to pass on knowledge to the kids...
Saying id just oppose whatever you say about Limerick is avoiding the question. I think the whole clubs v schools needs to be sorted and if that meant just schools played from september to march even at first year level up to the cup teams then so be it with clubs left to have cup competitions after that to maintain links to clubs
So what would you do? Surely you have an opinion on what could be done to help things in Limerick?
There was an issue In previous years where you played for one of about 4 schools or you didn't get looked at. Not sure it was specific to counties because it was the same within cork and I assume limerick. Thankfully thats been rectified
Yes he would because he's been doing it when players are healthy also
I think he has picked youth when no other options are available to him. Casey and coombes are the only two he has used in the big game 23.
Plenty of talent coming through, I think if whoever comes in for him has a very good squad.
get past the barriers
There isn't a god given right to win anything and having players from Limerick doesn't give a team a right of passage.
If the balance of the team for tomorrow night came from Limerick we have the doom and gloom about the rest of the province, I follow Munster I don't cheer any louder when a player from Limerick scores a try for us any more than when a player brought in from a far scores for us. It's a Munster score they all count.
I'm also of the belief no matter what I'd say about how Munster should try and get more players from Limerick into their squad you'd have a different view and as neither of us are in a position to do anything about it I think it's best left to those that can.
There was a view that when Munster would move to one training centre in Limerick it would kill off Cork players and tomorrow night shows how wrong that was. Maybe people should have some faith in the province.
Im not always negative but the issues in Limerick have been bubbling for years and there's room for both hurling and rugby. Care to expand if the schools system isnt working in Limerick then what should be done in its place?
The rugby the schools in Limerick are playing is far better now than it was in past and ive been to quite a few games this season be it u15s, JCT, SCT....
Its not that other parts of the province have only righted themselves. Its more theyve had more players seen and got the access to better quality of rugby..
Many players on city rugby clubs in the past were from Tipp, Kerry etc but had to move to Limerick/Cork to play senior rugby
Im not throwing stones btw...
It's great to see all these young guys in the XV.
However, you could also aski if Snyman, Jenkins, Cloete, Kleyn, Murray, Earls were available, would we be seeing a different XV? Does van Graan really trust the youth or is he just stuck for bodies?
Ya fair enough.
I have fairly high hopes for tomorrow tbh. Hopefully the extra week allows guys to get a bit sharper after the downtime
Doesn’t have to be negative but always is from lost ormond. Hurling is the name of the game in limerick at the moment but the schools system isn’t working in limerick as well as you would think . 150 + players playing SC every year in city schools and very few coming out of it.
Schools need to get the balance right between training to win rugby matches to training to play rugby . At the moment it heavily the former.
Anyway , been covered on other threads and great to see a majority home produced munster team taking the field tomorrow night.
To be fair other parts of the province have only righted themselves in the last few years. Probably not the time to he throwing stones I'm sure they will come right
Its an extremely legitimate question though as how can Munster ever get past the barriers it continously fails at in the pro game if its second biggest market for age grade playing numbers isnt close to pulling its weight in the development of professional players.
It is nothing to do with being anti Limerick. Which im not. funny as it was claimed a while back here i was anti Cork as well.....
Even by his own metrics, 6 of the 7 would have been young when they got their first start.
Can you not enjoy the fact the Munster are fielding a team where the vast majority are home grown products of The Province?
I think it's a legitimate question to be fair and doesn't have to be a negative or anti limerick. If limerick was producing talent relative to other areas (pr more than other areas as they would have traditionally) it would be great for the club. I suspect pary of it is the concentration on hurling there currently its probably cyclical and hopefully it comes back around
How predictable , Lost Ormonds anti limerick bias comes shining through yet again .
Cant ever get behind the province, just nitpicks in a very predictable fashion
Must have taken some right batterings from limerick clubs in his youth :)
Is conor murray Injured??
Not in the 23 last week either
Limerick is the second biggest population base. If Munster is to properly challenge for trophies which i assume you want then it needs to get far more from that base.
The numbers coming from south east, west cork, county clare especially Ennis more than Killaloe etc where there has always been few players are great but Limerick city needs to be sorted out
I think what I've spelt out is reasonable. 19-year olds Okeke and Campbell looked good recently. Would it be an example of Munster backing youth in three years time if they were first introduced at the age of 22?
Barry john played in the 60s or something it's a pretty pointless reference.
Coombes will be well past 50 caps by 25 that's plenty. I'd wager a lot of this is more a hit back at the guys on here co stantly claiming munster are not producing homegrown talent. It had been an issue but the squad is full Is quality homegrown players under 25 now the starting 15 tomorrow has 7 of them. Despite that at some point in the next few days some fan of another province will be on here lamenting munsters not backing homegrown talent and just paying for South Africans instead of backing homegrown players
You start by calling for extra context and finish by mentioning Barry John, so I think I'll leave you to it, Richie.
Lets see what age the players are then pick an age younger than that to say that's backing youth
That isn't my expectation. I'm just mentioning it for extra context.
I would say - when talking about this level of rugby - making a first start at 19, 20, maybe 21 would be young. 22 would be average at best, in my view. And 23 or older (for someone who has been in the set-up since or before their U20 days) would be on the old side. 18 would be very young and 17 extremely young.
Of course maybe a player focuses on 7s for a bit, or that type of thing, and that delays their introduction.
Saying 25th start for 24-yo Gavin Coombes is an example of backing youth is clutching at straws if you ask me. Barry John retired at 27.
Nope, that's just a strawman.
One take away is that Van Graan, both this season and last, has backed youth an awful lot more than has been repeatedly made out on here by a select few. Does that clarify things for you?
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