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Banking Comparison

Sully

Just looking at daily banking as I'm in the process of looking to setup a joint account. KBC is my current bank and I switched to them from AIB to avoid fees. But I'll be having to switching again.

Just looking to get a second opinion on my view point based on research so far.

Comparing banks for a regular personal account, AIB seems the most expensive. BOI and TSB seem to offer competitive pricing, based on debit card volume making the difference.

For the joint account, AIB seems cheaper as the volume of transactions will be low so would make them cheaper to use vs BOI and TSB who'll want heavy card usage to work out.

Other banking options not taken into account as ideally a good banking mobile app is needed.

Am I right on my research so far, or what do people think?

Thanks!

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NIMAN

I think to be honest its all a much of a muchness with Irish banks. I'm not sure you'll gain much in one over another.

Having said that, if a good functioning app is important to you, I'd give BoI a miss.

Sully

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118200621#Comment_118200621

70 for the year no additional fees with BOI for regular banking

18 for the year AIB plus 20c per transaction on a debit card, if I was going using my card over 67 times a quarter, I'd be hitting the BOI flat fee. Going over that and it's more expensive.

I'm calculating on assumption it's about 20 odd transactions a month on a debit card

coylemj

You could avoid most of those AIB debit card charges if you use contactless and Google Pay. Where the €50 limit on contactless doesn't apply. AIB is currently waiving the debit card charge for contactless.

dotsman

Have free banking with AIB, so not familiar with the charges, but agree with above that contact less has always been free (with rumours that they might start charging a small fee like 5 cent at some time in the future). In terms of app etc, then AIB would be vastly superior to BOI.

AIB, in conjunction with revolut/N26 is probably the best way to go.

Citrus_8

If App is not important, EBS is free, also Credit Union Current Account is a good choice too if there is a participating Credit Union in your area. A mix of EBS & Revolut or N26 could do the trick too. I would think that AIB is the best bank in Ireland re App, branch locations, customer service etc. Bank of Ireland are a bit old school, transfers are also slower. Permanent TSB is probably something in the middle. Ulster in my eyes isn't much better than the BOI, but that doesn't matter now either. But I really going to miss KBC a lot! I don't like the idea to pay for daily banking so I guess I will switch myself to EBS with Revolut/N26. EBS is mainly free, and they now provide a contactless bank card too.

coylemj

so I guess I will switch myself to EBS with Revolut/N26. EBS is mainly free, and they now provide a contactless bank card too.

yes, EBS provide a contactless debit card but it’s not supported by Google Pay. They sent me a new card recently, it replaced an expiring card which did not support contactless. I tried to add it to Google Pay and when this failed, I consulted the GP help centre. Where I found ‘EBS branded cards’ listed in the ‘unsupported cards’ column.

What you can do is use the EBS card for ATM withdrawals and a virtual Revolut card within Google Pay for contactless payments with your phone.

Citrus_8

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118203862#Comment_118203862

That's exactly my plan. And yes, I know that EBS sadly isn't supporting Google Pay... EBS is a new level of what it's called a basic banking :) I would have called BOI basic (re slow, old-school), but EBS is just something I have never seen before. Oh well, it's mainly free, so... But it's hard to compare to AIB which have had a free banking with some exceptions just a few years ago.

Markus Antonius

Useful thread for me. Such a downer seeing a 6 euro "maintenance fee" on my BOI account every month. That would nearly cover a netflix/disney+ fee for a year.

dotsman

TBH, EBS was always a little dinky operation. It was set up as the Educational Building Society to provide savings and mortgages to teachers. Later, it added a "current account" by using a very basic reselling of AIB current accounts and insurance via Irish Life. They never really had their own banking systems/software. After the crash, when it was massively broke with no chance to ever repay, it was supposed to have died off with Anglo and Irish Nationwide but, for political purposes, AIB was forced to purchase it (and keep it afloat as a separate entity) even though AIB had no use for it. And for the past decade, that is basically how it has been. A "half-bank" on life-support with no strategic value. So don't expect any investment in modern technology/offerings 🙁.

coylemj

Yes, agree with the post above. AIB appear to have no interest in investing in EBS so there have been no improvements in their service in recent times. But as someone with a Money Manager account, I'm prepared to put up with no mobile app and a mobile-unfriendly website for a current account with no fees. I transfer money into the account once a month and it services all of my direct debits.

The J Stands for Jay

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118203862#Comment_118203862

A Curve card would let you use the EBS account contactless.

seraphimvc

was thinking to open a new thread but might as well we can keep all relevant info in this thread (for 2022).

Same boat with OP that I strongly disagrees with AIB fee charges (new since early 2021), while i also hold KBC account and i use revolut when i go out. So I cut down everything related to AIB physical debit card usage for 2021 like no more cash withdrawal, stopped bringing the debit card on me once and for all - I was charged 50+ euro last year (vs like a few euro a year previously), mainly because of....online shopping.

Looking through the statement, I am so baffled to see 'debit card transactions' because I don't use AIB card anymore - presumably some forms of online payment used 'debit card transaction'? (understandably they cost the same anyway)

https://imgur.com/a/Y61qA1s

so for 2022, I will transfer money from AIB to KBC/Revolut once a month and thats it. Remove all AIB card info from my google pay/paypal etc - literally stop touching anything on AIB account (i wish i could stop my company paying in to this actually lmao). what does everyone do to be 'more practical'?

Seeing BOI charge people 6e per month (ouch!), AIB actually is still a viable bank...as soon as we are very careful when using it...

another old relevant thread: https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058111173/aib-charges

[Deleted User]

How are you transferring to Revolut? It's usually a debit card transaction unless you've it set up as a SEPA transfer initiated on the AIB side.

seraphimvc

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118415253#Comment_118415253

Yes a 'dc transaction' to revolut, i have tried SEPA transfer before but it would take like 1 day to reach revolut so oh well. That's why i said to transfer from AIB to Revolut once a month (or a few times i guess), and use revolut for literally everything (seems) the way to go now.

Charging non physical usage of the account is shocking to me (or i am just being dumb aha), because technically then if someone sent me money to my account (i.e. a 'dc transaction' occurred), that's a transaction regardless (receiving or sending money), isnt it? What exactly is in that 4e maintenance fees we pay AIB for, when everything goes through system/internet.

dotsman

Are you really asking what you pay 4 euro a month for? Do you ask your electricity provider the same? What about your mobile phone provider? Broadband provider? Netflix?

Your bank is arguable the most important, and most complex service you avail of and, thankfully, the cheapest service you will ever pay fo. Yet you expect it to be free, provided to you as some sort of charity?

Don't get me wrong, I'm all for keeping fees low etc, but daily banking costs banks a fortune to run. The bank has to pay for it somehow.

As for keeping the fees low. I don't pay charges, but keep them very low regardless by using credit card (and occasional revolut) for all Internet and big purchases, and debit is just for small contactless (and occasional chip & pin for security reasons). You should never be using debit card online - credit cards are much safer.

[Deleted User]

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118416307#Comment_118416307

I don't pay a cent for banking, so yes, I expect it to be free. Do you really have a problem with that?

dotsman

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118416374#Comment_118416374

As I posted above, I don't pay a cent either. But that is because I have a mortgage with AIB so they make their money from me that way. My point is banks have to make money somehow to pay for these expensive services. If they are not charging you directly, they are charging you indirectly. No bank can survive if giving away their services for free.

seraphimvc

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118416307#Comment_118416307

aye yes i do, they should be free.

As a common citizen (i.e. not someone remotely rich) who has been using banking service in more than 5 countries for nearly half my life now, not one charges like irish banks (those banks often have small fees if you dont deposit X amount of money, like irish banks previously; some are completely free).

Obviously if AIB charge me like 18e annual fee only - that's fine, life goes on (Dublin/Ireland has crazy living cost, not news), but as I said I found out that i was charged 50e for 2021 ffs - is not even some premium service I am getting etc. And no, if the maintenance work has always been done 'free' (i.e. they have been paying the same amount of employees to work to do that etc), what exactly justifies this new fee? Did they hire more people to work on that, or they need to pay more to employees to do these 'maintenance'? The reality is that they prob cut down workforce and doesn't know how to balance out the deficit/profit/cost so they just do X fee to bully the end users (to cover their a**) - lazy and incompetent.

And the bottomline is that, why is AIB pushing the users to NOT use their services lol. Because they knew people have no choice - half the population prob doesnt care also - free money, why not? Pure greed.

It sounds like you got away from this farce due to mortgage (no fees for you etc) - that's fair, but ya for those who are not like you, i think it is reasonable to see some people who are not happy about the fees.

On the online shopping part: it depends on the site, some reputable ones and being a regular mean I have no need to change the way i pay after all these years. For those I don't trust, I usually use Paypal.

dotsman

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118417453#Comment_118417453

But you seem to be forgetting that every bank, all over the world, charged money (and a lot more than today's fees) for banking facilities up until very recently. That began to change after the millennium as banks began to compete for customers (with the view that they will make far more money off them through lending etc). In other words, that current accounts would be used as "loss leaders". In Ireland, it was only legalised by Fianna Fail circa 2005 and was a terrible mistake. When every seller is offering the same loss leaders, then none of them make any money - this drove them to lend more and more. Unfortunately, with the same competition out there and a relatively static market in terms of population, this drove them to lend more and more to each individual and company. And with this intense competition, the margins on every euro lent was lowered, which meant they had to lend even more and more just to make the same money. And then, in 2008, it all collapsed...

One of the many forgotten lessons of the financial crash was that daily banking should always be, at worst, cost neutral, ideally profitable for a bank. This was the recommendation of every expert looking at the financial crash, and agreed with by almost everybody, but nothing got done about it (just like pretty much every other lesson learned). If we had a functioning regulator in this country (and we do not), then all free banking would be banned. Every bank would have to justify their low pricing to the regulator, proving that it is still profitable/sustainable. This would encourage banks to operate efficiently, but not recklessly.

There has been no big increase in the cost of providing these services in recent years. What has happened is that banks have pulled back from these loss leaders as they were losing too much money (and with reckless lending somewhat curtailed, there was nothing to pay for it). With banks withdrawing from the country as there is no money to be made, it means that the few banks that do survive will be able to etch out some profitability from their very low charges.

And by "very low charges", I mean "the €50 you paid last year" that you are now complaining about. How does that €50 compare to how much you spent on mobile phone/broadband/gym/electricity/heating/tv/netflix/house insurance/health insurance/car insurance and all the other bills you paid last year. Banking is one of, if not the cheapest service you will ever use, yet one of the most complex and expensive to provide. The only reason it feels like a "ripoff" is because you, and others, got used to free banking over the past 15 years. The reality is that you probably should have been paying €100-€300 per annum all along, and this €50 is actually a bargain.

seraphimvc

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118418015#Comment_118418015

I agreed pretty much the first 3 paragraphs - ya it is a global issue sure, and sure most of the west still suffers from the 2008 collapse, there is no deny on that - and yet, we still have no real solution (or any idea) how to manage well that sh!te even for a small nation like Ireland. All this is another topic.

But then you didn't address or respond to my remarks on the banks being lazy/incompetent, bullying the commoners and being greedy - that was my main points. Whereas you go on to use the 'global crisis' as the cause of everything - as if the crisis enables the banks to keep being lazy and incompetent and people should take on more irrational sh!te.

For your last paragraph, your point on "we pay XYZ this amount of money therefore it is ok to pay for ABC some as well" - i am afraid that whatever i pay for XYZ is completely irrelevant to what i pay for ABCDEFG for that matter.

There is no reality of "you probably should have been paying €100-€300 per annum all along" - because I mentioned above that I literally do not pay a single cent for bank accounts over 5 countries half my life (3 accounts in our very neighbouring country aha). I am well aware of what you said there but - again what exactly justifies the extra/new fees?

Should I mention that I paid 50e annually for a small investment account ('premium customer' etc) - whereas AIB literally gives me the most basic functions of a bank account and charge me the same amount by straightforward transactions that have been fully automated in 21th century. And no I don't really feel rip off - I am just trying to make sense of the rationale (if any) behind.

You basically are saying that "oh we should have to pay to use this 'free' service that has been free for like past 100 years". More so, literally, what exactly is so special about irish banks that they must do this to survive? It is a small nation but not that small and we are definitely not doing that bad no?

Or are we talking the "be a good boy" culture here where if today all coffee shops unified and sell a cup of coffee 20e, people would still pay for that (and will look for ridiculous reasons to justify that). Surely all these are not rational at all.