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Solar Performance Spreadsheet - Analysis and data sharing

  • 30-12-2021 6:34pm
    #1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,566 ✭✭✭


    So as promised, here is the link to the google docs spreadsheet which will hopefully serve as a good way in sharing our monthly production details.

    Boards.ie - Solar Capacity and production analysis - Google Sheets

    Some guidelines.

    • Avoid putting in partial month data (unless it's the current one). What I mean is if your installation was setup July 17th, then leave July blank as your first month as it makes it difficult to compare across installations as they aren't like-for-like. One exception is that you can include what you have done so far in the current month, if you want to - as long as you update the month when it's complete with the final figure.
    • The spreadsheet isn't "my" spreadsheet, or anyone elses. It's owned by the community and as such the success or failure will be the engagement that the community has with with it.
    • If someone genuinely feels that there is something which could be improved, then don't be shy and feel free to improve things for the betterment of the community - but at the same time, be cognizant that not everyone may see things as you do. E.g. highlighting cells in your favorite florescent colors might not be to everyone's taste!
    • There are a couple of "Spare Users" rows in there. These can be used by replacing "Spare user" with "<Your name>". If there are no "Spare Users" rows left, then we'll have to add a few rows. If you know how to do this in Excel, Google sheets is the same, so feel free. Don't forget the charts may need updating to include the data-source(s). If you are stuck and unsure what to do, I can do this or ECO_Mental if you want to PM one of us? Happy to help.

    Aside: Just want to give a shout out also to ECO_Mental who was one of the main drivers of the charting and filtering in the spreadsheets. Sure, I setup the original spreadsheet and it might be my name posting this message now, but in reality a large proportion of the work here was done by him and that kudos should acknowledged.



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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,743 ✭✭✭yankinlk


    Can we pin this to the top of forum or do we need to reply here now and again?


    A few things I was thinking we could include.... installer? Some added in comments, but maybe a formal column.

    How about chosen meter, 24 hour, smart or night day.

    Could we include column for provider and package? Might be helpful to see what people pick



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,500 ✭✭✭ECO_Mental


    Thanks Buillit👍️

    The more I look at this document the more useful I think this resource can be for people to contrast and compare their systems. In particular the first section where it has all the details of everyone's systems

    What I think though is for people should to do their own analysis on this data by downloading the google sheet to excel and then you can manipulate and interrogate the data without the risk of messing things up by mistake.

    This google sheet is only the data repository for people so they can copy the data out. Everybody wants to compare to systems similar to theirs such as geographical location aspect etc etc. and is very bespoke to everyone.

    Here is a quick graph I did in excel where I took systems about 0.5 kWp either side of my 6.1 system.

    I am sure over the next few weeks people will be posting some interesting graphs based on other metrics such as the difference in performance due to orientation. (might have a bit of work putting the orientation data into a structure that can be analyzed though...🤔😁)


    6.1kWp south facing, South of Cork City



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,926 ✭✭✭SouthWesterly


    It would be worth putting in the installer. Its off the forum so we can list want details we want.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,566 ✭✭✭bullit_dodger


    LOL - I did think of that when I was doing my initial draft. I left it out. To be clear, I don't see this as "my" spreadsheet, so if the general feeling is to include it then we can. I left it out as I didn't want to be seen as endorsing any company over another. There certainly are some good reasons to include the installer, but didn't want to present someone with an advertisement opportunity. (Setup fake account, great quote etc..... since we don't validate anything......I left the field out in case it would get abused. But again, this is just my own opinion. One of many here.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,926 ✭✭✭SouthWesterly


    The thing with wildly fantastic quotes. They will stand out as being outliers.

    It's not an endorsement of anyone just a statement of fact. "Day to night pv" * installed my system.

    *may or may not be a real company 😂



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,452 ✭✭✭✭DrPhilG


    Personally I think that the overwhelming message on all the relevant pages here is, regardless of who does your quote, post the details for all to review.


    That's why I don't see an issue posting supplier info.


    I've widely recommended the EnnisKillen Boys. I don't work for them and I don't have any vested interest in them getting business. But even if I was, would it matter? People are going to post details of their quotes anyway and others here will dissect them. If the quotes don't hold up to scrutiny then they won't get the business regardless of my recommendation.


    Anyway, this has been done to death in the stickied thread and since the Mods apparently no longer cover here it's a moot point.


    Good work on the spreadsheet!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,500 ✭✭✭ECO_Mental


    Lots of data coming in..

    Again did some early analysis of the data and as we are still waiting to get a lot of Decembers numbers in this can/will change... but as you can see championc's system seems to be the best performing system on most months based on kWh produced per kWp installed . Denismc also has a few good months.

    There are a number of systems that have been installed only this year that seem to perform quite good towards the end of the year including my own. The table below the graph highlights the best performing system for that month.



    6.1kWp south facing, South of Cork City



  • Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators Posts: 6,282 Mod ✭✭✭✭graememk


    The kw per kwp is a useful statistic.

    Sure I can brute force high numbers in the summer but even with a lot of panels, low slope hurts production a lot. (And half of my panels are north east 😂)

    All we need is @mp3guy to come and blow me out of the water.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,971 ✭✭✭mp3guy


    Done. Numbers a bit skewed as Jan-Mar I only had 9.2kWp and I only fixed my export limiting up from 3kW to 6kW in mid-August, expecting 2022 to be even better.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,548 ✭✭✭kabakuyu


    Is that not a typo, I thought Champions system was 3.7KWp.



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  • Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators Posts: 6,282 Mod ✭✭✭✭graememk


    Ah that would explain it, As You have better aspects/slopes than me I had expected that you would be at least double mine.

    Have thought about doubling my panels, but thinking its not worthwhile for me.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,971 ✭✭✭mp3guy


    I would say I'll crack 13MWh this year with the extra generation in Jan/Feb/Mar plus a higher export cap in Summer. The reality of the situation is that if you up your kWp, unless you buy more expensive battery storage which hurts your return timescale, you're going to be exporting more and also hitting the 6kW export limit as well, effectively hamstringing your total production. You can really see this happen to me in May/Jun/Jul/Aug, easily a couple MWh missed out on purely down to this (and I have an EV). Four months of the year I average > 50kWh per day, half of that will be used by my normal daily usage, 20kWh into the battery inc losses, leaving change of 5kWh, every day. There's nowhere for the energy to go, if you're driving an EV enough every day to use that up it won't be home during peak solar hours!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,566 ✭✭✭bullit_dodger




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,971 ✭✭✭mp3guy


    Doing same already, only makes sense if you already had a decent GPU before the big price hikes happened a year ago.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,566 ✭✭✭bullit_dodger


    I managed to snag a two 3 series cards via the EVGA queuing system (a 3090 and a 3080Ti), and I had a 2080Ti from back in the day. Still quite profitable at €10-12 day - and relieves you of having to find a solution to the "problem" of not wanting to export.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,500 ✭✭✭ECO_Mental


    "All we need is @mp3guy to come and blow me out of the water."

    Oh Jaysus!!!


    6.1kWp south facing, South of Cork City



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,500 ✭✭✭ECO_Mental


    They have their system in as 2.7 kWp in the google sheet, dont know if a typo or not

    6.1kWp south facing, South of Cork City



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,874 ✭✭✭garo


    No it's a 2.7kWp system.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,743 ✭✭✭yankinlk


    No one seems to be at issue with this suggestion so I added 3 columns at the end of installer details.

    Installer, Meter & Provider / Package. Optional if people want to fill out or not.

    I also used freeze on the first two rows to make it easier to update your own info.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,548 ✭✭✭kabakuyu


    I'm a little confused, in the monthly production thread going back over the summer months, champion had it listed as a 3.6khp system, I noted that because I kept a close eye on systems that were close in size to my system (2.5)like alkers, dennismc and raytaxi.Maybe champion can clarify.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,452 ✭✭✭✭DrPhilG


    @bullit_dodger I'm sure you already are doing so, but be sure to back up that data regularly to an offline master copy.


    Especially now that it has been shared on the Facebook PV group. There are an awful lot of installers on that page, some open and some more discreet.


    It would be in some of their best interests to nuke that data!



  • Moderators, Education Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators Posts: 8,214 Mod ✭✭✭✭Jonathan


    Was wondering was someone going to share it with the group! Lots of people posting both annual generation stats and is this a good quote posts!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,566 ✭✭✭bullit_dodger


    I do have a copy, although google docs does store versions for you, so you can always backtrack it a bit if necessary, and see what changes people make E.g.

    I can't swear I'll take a manual copy every day, but I'll grab a snapshot the 1st week of every month or so, that way we'll have the latest monthly data in there - but the version tracking should be that avenue closed.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,926 ✭✭✭SouthWesterly


    I'm not sure that we should be letting it be used on the FB group.

    Why should installers have access to the data?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 579 ✭✭✭idc


    Whats to stop an installer being on boards and still viewing the data anyway?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,566 ✭✭✭bullit_dodger


    Well anyone with the link can access the data. You, me, Eamon Ryan, installers.....once the genie is out of the bottle (i.e. the link) it's very difficult to put the genie back in without changing the link. While I don't think we specified "Don't share on bookface", I don't think whoever did that did anything wrong.

    I wouldn't necessarily see a problem per say with installers having access. Sure, some disgruntled moron could delete or modify nefariously the data and that would require me to simply hit the "restore version" button to fix it - but there are morons everywhere. if it starts to happen regularly, i'll recreate it with a new link and we can lock down access - but I hope it wouldn't come to that.



  • Registered Users Posts: 45 fluffykre


    I was no aware their was a facebok group anyone have a link?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,743 ✭✭✭yankinlk


    I joined the FB group and tried find the link but failed. I'm not sure it's a big worry,bookface algorithm will prevent it getting popular lol



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 579 ✭✭✭idc


    Haha I looked in Facebook group where it was linked too, maybe it's a reply to some post hence not obvious to find!!!



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,393 ✭✭✭SD_DRACULA


    Can someone make this a sticky thread?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,452 ✭✭✭✭DrPhilG




  • Moderators, Education Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators Posts: 8,214 Mod ✭✭✭✭Jonathan


    Look again. Post is now pinned. I PM'd the CMod.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,452 ✭✭✭✭DrPhilG




  • Moderators, Education Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators Posts: 8,214 Mod ✭✭✭✭Jonathan




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 793 ✭✭✭reklamos


    The installers already have access to the data for the ones they have installed through cloud. What this spreadsheet provides them is access to the data of the ones they did not install/pricing/reviews. This can be good or bad it all depends how you look at it and who is looking.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,868 ✭✭✭Alkers


    Have updated my data there for the year.


    Intersting spreadsheet, particularly cost per kWp installed and kWh per kWp



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,566 ✭✭✭bullit_dodger


    "Cost per Kwp" is a bit .... meh. You cant compare across installations like that as the installation price includes battery (and often EDDI), so it's not a like-for-like comparison. Someone has a 2.4Kwp battery in the price and anther person got 8Kwhr battery....etc

    I'd vote we scrap that column.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,971 ✭✭✭mp3guy


    I actually think the statistics aren't fine grained enough to derive any useful conclusions, all they do is cloud the nuances of each system.

    When you aggregate up like this you miss out on important aspects of each install - Is there a battery included in those prices? Is there a warranty? What types of panels? Do they have optimisers? Was it a DIY/self purchased install? Any extra electrical work required? How much shade does this individual have to deal with? And of course is it North Donegal up in the mountains by the sea full of fog or in the sunny south east?

    @bullit_dodger beat me to it.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 579 ✭✭✭idc


    I agree to remove that "Cost per kwh". I almost considered attempting to change price of my system to remove eddi, cost of full house backup cabling/switches to be a more generic similar install to others.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 579 ✭✭✭idc





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  • Registered Users Posts: 45 fluffykre


    I have been watching EV puzzles youtube videos and have noticed this year he has changed out his inverter for one of this arrays a number of times.

    He comments that he can notice a difference in inverters output in low light conditions, goes into some detail on this video. It appears of the 3 he has used huawei, solar edge and solis inverter the solis inverter performed the best in low light in his opinion.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R_T980yYrEE
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c2pRH5QD70s
    

    In Ireland and the UK we would benefit from inverters which are effective in low light conditions. I propose add a new columns for "inverter model". As we grow the data it may help us correlative which inverters perform best at certain months of the year. This could benefit new folks looking to purchase a system. If you could pick one which performs well in summer and excellent in low light, evening and winter that in itself would lower the payback period and help folks with smaller roof squeeze out more kWh out of their panels.



  • Moderators, Education Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators Posts: 8,214 Mod ✭✭✭✭Jonathan




  • Registered Users Posts: 45 fluffykre


    Hi Jonathan. I do see that there is an inverter column called Inverter however I see value adding a column where the actual inverter model number (if we dont add another column maybe we could change that column name to be more specific) is added as it looks like different level of detail are being entered into that column. From a data point of view if we had the actual model it would be useful and we could compare that this solis inverter looks like it may perform better then this new model.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 579 ✭✭✭idc


    Given each install has so many different variables as it is - location, orientation, roof slope, different panel brands and kWp. I'm not sure how you could work out if one model of solis is worse better than another or any other brand.

    Didn't watch the YouTube videos yet but he has an advantage in that he's changing 2-3 variables only - inverter, time of year and weather!

    There is or was a company in Netherlands I think who covered their roof with different brands of panels so they could compare how each performed under almost identical conditions. Cant find link to it. Not sure if they did similar investigation of inverters. Similarly there is a long running battery test in Australia https://batterytestcentre.com.au/



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,743 ✭✭✭yankinlk


    Added an "Optimisers Installed?" column - suggest answers like None or string 1, string 2 etc.

    Also I fixed row 2 - someone had written over it.



  • Moderators, Education Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators Posts: 8,214 Mod ✭✭✭✭Jonathan


    Propose we revert to version at 11:18 this morning (9 January) and re-add the optimiser columns. Someone b0rked the details sheet at 17:45 by adding filters, which is having knock on impacts for the other sheets.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,233 ✭✭✭irishchris


    Not sure who or what keeps changing the spreadsheet numbers but it is needed up again today. First four months of my usage are removed and every other month is way off what I had entered when doing it last month for the year. Loads of other columns have errors too. Is there a backup from a previous day's that it can be reverted to?



  • Moderators, Education Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators Posts: 8,214 Mod ✭✭✭✭Jonathan


    Since I got no objections I just reverted back to yesterday's version at 11:18 there.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,233 ✭✭✭irishchris




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,874 ✭✭✭garo


    Someone moved the new users from the top to the bottom on the 2021 basic production tab and now some of the production figures are misaligned. For example, my production is now in graememk(dad)'s row. I won't change anything until we figure out what's going on and can revert safely.



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