You're right. Fúck this shÃt I'm becoming a heroin addict. Make things easier in the long run.
Ah will you get over yourself.
The big issue is the fact that the majority of us have already been taxed on our salaries, and then taxed out the hole in every possible way, and the country overall is expensive as ****. So if you manage to still save and spend a lot of time researching how best to invest your money, you shouldn't have a third of your reward taken away after that risk which you took - without you taking that risk, the government would've gotten ZERO extra tax from you, so it's sickening that they feel entitled to a third of it on the flip side. And what do we even get for the taxes here? **** healthcare system, **** housing crisis with rents and property prices at astronomical prices (with our taxes contributing towards that with HAP), **** roads in general, VRT, terrible public transport and infrastructure, badly developed cities which are borderline unliveable compared with many others in Europe. You're excluded from basically every social benefit as well unless you're earning very little; the people paying the lowest into the system get everything (60% of social housing tenants are getting their income solely from jobseekers). Our CGT rate is one of the highest in the world, and the threshold is insulting, and then you have the deemed disposal rule as well which was incepted by complete smooth brains. The list goes on, I'm sure others have other issues that make them feel similarly
The Scandinavian countries have high taxes and CGT as well, but at least there's some element of value for that tax money there. The average age people move out of home there is <20, for example. Ireland is so incompetent and half arsed in so many ways, it feels like a raw deal. We don't even have an ISA similar to the UK, it's a pathetic country for individuals actually trying to get themselves further ahead of things like inflation and rising cost of living
CGT accounts for less than 2% of the exchequer each year, by the way. Very little in the grand scheme of things, even though it's such a ridiculous rate. I think if they actually set the taxes up to encourage more wealth growth, they could potentially take in more taxes; long-term, however, I think the benefit would be the increasing amount of people with more disposable income who would be in better positions to start their own businesses which are even more beneficial for the country
Who's coming into multiples of 6 figure profits? The majority here in all likelihood are 4-5 figure profits with the exception of some early adopters (who took on so much risk that you could hardly call it an investment). Why do the irish government care if I come into a 1000 euro profit or a 10,000 profit? That difference in the allowance clearly is a massive money maker for them, and the fact that you don't see an issue with this shows what kind of politics/economy you support.
This thread has killed my excitement, today
Ah will ya stop moaning. Why would ya be whinging about the difference between a 3k allowance and a 12,300 allowance if you are after coming into in to multiples of 6 figures.
I'd say now that if Paul Reid (or Micheal Martin) gave an interview tomorrow moaning about having to pay over so much money in salary tax, that they wouldn't get too much sympathy 🤣
The big issue is that people are taking big financial risks only to have a third of their profits plundered by a government that p!ss it away carelessly. The bigger disgruntlement in Ireland is with the ridiculous and measly allowance that hasn't changed since the 90s and is completely disproportionate to other countries (eg. UK tax free allowance = £12,300). The government have zero forward thinking and don't see the bigger picture when it comes to accumulation of wealth.
I don't think anyone in this thread would tell anyone earning 250k a year to f$ck off. If you are earning 250k then you are more than likely in a high-stress job, expending disproportionate hours of your life a week earning it. I wouldn't hold it against anyone being disgruntled at having half of their salary stripped away.
I'm not directing this at you but what I don't understand is people bragging about how lucky, or smart, they have been in terms of getting a massive life-changing-never-have-to-work-again-windfall, but then moan about having to pay tax on it as if they can't afford it. CGT is less than what people pay on what they earn in a job. If you make your money, you should pay your tax. What's the big issue?
If someone in a very well-paid government quango job was moaning about having to pay about 50% tax on their 250k-a-year salary you'd right feel like telling them to f$ck off away with their whinging.
But you'd then still be resident and subject to the ridiculous tax setup here on investments forever. Better off long-term making the short-term sacrifice and becoming domiciled somewhere where you can grow that even further over time without being essentially punished with disgracefully high and punitive taxes, just look at the state of taxes on ETFs/indexes here. Would allow you to grow it to true generational wealth and ensure even your great grandchildren are sorted. Takes 3 or 4 years to become non-resident/non domiciled and you'd most likely be able to enjoy a nicer quality of life depending on where you go. Visit home a few times a year then whenever you want without a care in the world
Wouldn't need to hoard it all before doing this either. Sell enough to fund the above and enjoy yourself in the process, wouldn't need to work
I never mentioned leverage at all.
Suppose you have 1 BTC worth 100k today and some lender gave you a loan of 20k. You give that lender your 1 BTC as collateral. If it took a nosedive, then it would be likely that that lender would trigger liquidating at least some of your BTC well above a price of 20k. For example, if it drops below 40k then they might automatically liquidate some so that what you owe stays under 50% of the remaining assets (with the added pain of triggering CGT for some people at this lower level). For such a volatile asset, there would need to be a big buffer built into it.
A margin call is fine if you have the money to put into it. My only point was that some people don't understand how it works and can be surprised if they are closed out. I never said that you didn't know how it works.
No, you borrow a fraction of what you deposit of the same asset. It’s not leverage trading as it’s the same asset and not multiples of what you have (100x trades etc). You sell the loan for cash and buy it back if it dips to repay the loan but that’s taxable. The interest would cover the loan interest anyway (edit not tax advise ask a professional).
Anyway the very wealthy do similar to avoid tax, get paid in shares and borrow against them for cash so they have more dept on paper and the shares can’t be taxed until they sell.
Sticking with the Nexo example, you can borrow at 50% LTV and pay 6.9% interest, or go for a lower 20% LTV and pay 0%. A fair haircut indeed, but that's what's needed if you want to withdraw cash and not have to pay any tax.
They could borrow USDC against their bitcoin at 10% LTV (so very little chance of ever getting liquidated) and keep the USDC in Nexo earning 12%. Lots of wiggle room with that amount of bitcoin.
In fairness, nexo will give warnings before closing out your positions too, and there are also options to automatically move funds over to prevent you being liquidated if there was a steep drop in your collateral value.
No. They can liquidate you and will do so if it hits their limits. Plenty of retail investors got very badly caught with this last year in the regular stock market. They had been piling in using the "nearly free money" from the likes of robinhood and then found themselves cashed out when the market tanked.
You're getting great value out of the cash from your loan though to be fair. When you get it you are spending it (on a house or living off it). Then when the market drops you are spending it again to buy more BTC. And then when you have that done you are spending it a third time on paying itself back. And you still have cash left over at the end of it! I didn't know money worked like that 😉
You borrow 10-20% of the asset you deposit then sell it for cash. If the market drops buy it back at the lower rate and repay the loan and still have the difference in cash. Then rinse repeat. You have the 80% coverage just in case and can’t get liquidated as it’s the same asset. This should only be a certain percentage of what you have in case the provider has security issues. Also some staking and loan pools give interest in native tokens for lending borrowing so you can mix about.
My point is that that is a fair haircut. And bear in mind also that those platforms are best placed to close you out. Yet they still need that massive haircut. There is a reason why they won't take that risk. And they will liquidate you and close you out fairly rapidly too.
That wallet was worth nearly 5 million for a white back in 2017 and has been worry over 10m for most if not all of this year. According to Cnocbui it's some unlucky Irish person getting screwed by our CGT rates that only now can afford to leave here for some place that has a lower CGT rate so they can buy a house. They couldn't do it in January because it was only worth about 10m and we all know 10m won't get you a decent house in Portugal.
That's what defi/cefi platforms do, lend to people using their crypto as collateral. Depending on the asset, most will want a 30-50% LTV to maintain the loan. Btc itself is more difficult as most of the defi options are on Ethereum, which would mean you'd need to wrap your bitcoin to get a loan (and causing a taxable event), but I know the likes of Nexo will lend against your bitcoin at 0-2% interest if you keep your LTV below 20% with no payback date. With $15m in Bitcoin you'd easily get a loan to live off and likely never have to pay it back.
Well he didn't have €15m of bitcoin 5 years ago, so paying rent was the correct decision in that scenario.
I made the opposite decision. Sold a load of Bitcoin about $600 back in 2016 to help fund a deposit on a house. Obviously now if I'd have held I'd be able to buy the house outright, but at the time I was happy with my decision.
You are very presumptious.
Given that you appear to have a lot of money locked up in these things, you should listen to the likes of that Johndoe poster. He is probably the only regular poster on here that comes across to me as understanding markets. Other posters often have other general useful advice too that you could take the odd heed of.
No, you'd just need to be able to do some maths. I don't have a mortgage and have no inclination to touch my BTC until I am out of the country.
A lender would want to be fairly thick to lend hard currency backed by such a volatile asset without a severe haircut.
What haircuts do the actual crypto exchanges give for margin purposes? I presume that some have that facility?
Even if the lower CGT was 20%. Would you really not enjoy some money for the sake of 13%?
Sell 2m of it and you have more than enough to buy a nice house and living expenses for a good few years after CGT. It would be madness to have 15m in assets and not sell some of it while working and paying rent.
In five to ten years people will be saying he was mad to sell, that he should have borrowed against it as an assets.
The thoughts of working for years and paying rent while having 15m in bitcoin just to save money on paying CGT tax. You'd have to be mental.
I doubt it, more likely some poor Irish sod who has been trapped by life circumstances has finaly managed to escape where CGT isn't 33%, and needed to buy a house.
My wallet has been dormant for 4 years.
...
someone is definitely after figuring out how to open old wallets
Agreed. I think it's a great price point atm.
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