the way that the space will be used will change
I've seen this too in Galway. There are several medical device companies who are taking advantage of the WFH switch to repurpose office spaces into cleanrooms. For these companies, its the cleanrooms that make the money, not the office space. This has resulted in these places increasing operative #'s while keeping office staff, just not having the same amount of office staff onsite.
I've no doubt other places and industries are doing the same e.g. pharma etc so yeah, there will be less office space, but that won't necessarily mean the space won't be used, like you said, it will be used for something else, something more valuable than a desk.
Hell even the parking spaces are dead space that would be better used. Even looking at somewhere like Parkmore in Galway, the amount of space used for parking for one manufacturer, Medtronic, is not far off the amount of space their plants take up. Its the same for Merit Medical, Boston Scientific etc
The parking is a good point. I hadn't thought of it.
The amount of parking for a given development is usually determined at the planning stage, right? Would that mean that there'd be legislative change required to allow those plants to develop their carparks in work sites?
Don't think so. I know a recent application (last 2 years) in Parkmore was told to go back and try again as they had too much parking. The planners are now looking for businesses to reduce the amount of space given over to parking so any move in that direction would likely be welcomed by them
Certainly, office cost savings are a medium to long term issue, probably over a 5-20 year cycle for many organisations. But if employees don't draw a line in the sand about sharing of savings now, it will all be eaten bread soon forgotten by the time the savings actually arise.
And there may well be organisations that will reconfigure space rather than reducing space. I'm not claiming that my theory applies to every organisation in the country, but it certainly applies to some. There was a post on one of these threads about the Vista organisation (UK I think) planning on reducing office accommodation by 50%.
So presumably since you are expecting employers to share any savings with you, you are will to share any savings on your side with them - reduced travelling costs, lunches out, etc right?
Remember how you got a salary increase when bus fares went up and fuel prices went up? Me neither. They didn't care about these costs in the past so there's no point in pretending to care about them now
Savings on office costs will be very substantial over the coming years for most businesses. So, are employees going to sit back and watch shareholders getting fat?
If you have a skill that is in demand you can negotiate, if you don't you can try negotiate if you are unhappy with the outcome move to another company.
An employer/employee relationship is business pure and simple. Any idea that an employer will share savings if they don't have to is naive.
Whatever, your argument does not fly and until you have something realistic not worth debating.
You're absolutely right that employers will absolutely not share these savings, unless they are forced to do so.
So now it is down to negotiation, more likely at a collective level than an individual level.
At the risk of repeating myself .. there is no evidence that employers will make the savings you keep banging on about!
Article posted on one of these threads showed Vista organisation reducing their office space by 50%
This is an interesting article and shows a microcosm of some of the issues the country is going to face now.
Areas like Leitrim that always lost their young people now have a totally new situation, they’re actually going to be very desirable locations, but they will need new housing and infrastructure.
Apart from the Celtic Tiger years, large chunks of Ireland have been in decline for almost all my life, but, rather amazingly, it all changed overnight.
A lot of my employees in Belfast have moved house since we went fully remote. It’s great people can do this, but hopefully policymakers are alive to what’s going to be a fairly big population shift.
The next census will be done in Apr of next year. That will highlight a lot of what you are talking about. My guess is once the rural politicians see the benefit WFH can bring to rural towns and villages, they'll be clamoring for more of it
Have you met any young person from Leitrim who wanted to move back there?
No, but I’m from around 100 miles away.
Here’s another Leitrim story.
I think the pace of this has caught everyone off guard, the shift to remote working is going to take the sting out of property in some areas, but the areas that will get the remote workers in many cases aren’t ready.
There’s a similar situation in North Clare with remote workers wanting to live near the sea and while they are rejuvenating the area, there is also some displacement.
Yeah, mate moved back and bought a little cottage near Rooskey. Was lived in by the previous owner for 30+ years so not much to be done. He has an acre, stunning scenery, close to his parents but not on top of them, and a work from home job and the mortgage a tiny fraction of his wages. I'm very jealous, lovely part of the country tbf.
I work for a company that's mostly WFH (was pre-pandemic too) and the workforce is mostly based in the BMW. I was mentoring a young chap last month who is now living in a thatched cottage in Kerry with his girlfriend. Another mentee moved from Dublin to Donegal after getting the job.
In fairness, you can't win. When young people stayed in Dublin and complained about the cost of living they were roasted by some and if you move back down the country people like you still have the smart comment.
I live back in the midlands and you do have to make a bit more effort if you're single alright. Then again I don't drink and was never one for the pubs/clubs so I found it hard to meet people when I was living in Dublin too.
I'm happier, calmer, eat better, weigh less, sleep better, am more productive. 5 minutes after finishing today I was half way across a field with my dogs watching the setting sun color the fog a lovely pink. Now at home cooking a feed from scratch. Anyone who wants to put me on the M7 for 2 hours a day or (maybe worse) mortgaged up to the eyeballs in a cookie cutter estate in Kildare or Wicklow can go and do one.
My employer did do very well during the pandemic but in fairness I've had 2 10% increases since March 2020 and they've approved me to work from Costa Rica 60 days next Feb/March so I've little to complain about. I do appreciate that not all employers are as generous. I know someone working for a company so scabby they are logging keystrokes and pee breaks.
I had to read this post twice it's so awesome. Congrats on your move - sounds like its going great.
the additional sleep every day - even if it's only 30-40 minutes - has really been beneficial to my health. I had forgotten what it was like to not be tired all the time.
How many months til the same old heads start trying to tell us all again how great it will be to be back in the office?
Certainly, every company that is a producer of physical commodities or needs space to store/organise items to provide a service will delighted to make better productive use of their premises and could expand services/production.
Companies that provide non-physically tangible services (eg insurance etc) will be tied into leases with relatively empty offices. It will be interesting to see how it all pans out.
Over the Christmas I was talking to the relative who is an insurance risk assessor and he has been involved in a few wfh risk assessments, but says it is still a grey area and depending on how the courts will view cases going forward. Contributory negligence is a factor, so it is incumbent on every employee to maintain their workstation to a safe standard.
Rule of thumb, property prices & rent go up according to where people tend to want to live. Significant towns with waterside facilities, such as Carrick-on-Shannon, are going to be particularly popular for recreational reasons.
I have to say Andrew you post some shite in this thread and it's made to see it's still going. Fair play on fighting the good fight.
"Maintenance of workstation" isn't really the big issue, is it? Not much maintenance involved in a desk or a monitor.
Provision of equipment and ensuring that the workstation is ergonomically safe are the big issues.
Feel free to point anything that I've said that is factually incorrect.
Read the thread
Like I said, feel free to point to anything I've said that is factually incorrect.
Been there, done that, many times
Like I said, read the thread
Well, you know what I mean; presuming a formal assessment has been made of workstation, keeping it that way. Eg, not moving laptop to the top of the kitchen stove and then trying to claim for a work-related burning injury. 😂
A lot of people literally work with laptops…. er…. on laps. Friend of mine the other night said when she was studying in Kuala Lumpur, all the guys in the apartment she shared literally all sharing the sofa, undressed, with only the laptop providing a figleaf, so to speak. No workstations to speak of, and all crowded into a small living space. I’m sure it must happen in Dublin too.
I really hope the civil service will be sensible with WFH in the long term. Hard to know if we can trust that if the role can be done remotely then the option will be there. It's hard to see them diverging away from the Dublin centralisation of certain roles and/or branches of a Department. Having to decline a possible promotion or job offer as the role is technically based in Dublin, while it could be done remotely predominantly or wholly, is no good for either party.
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