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Is there any hope at all?

LaraDo

Hi, all,

This is my first post, and it is a bit of a mess but try to bear with me and ask me anything it is needed to help you help me, please.

More than ten years of relationship.

He’s a person that doesn’t like to be told anything and has a hard time learning from someone else because he doesn’t accept directions from others. But he’s very good at giving what he calls suggestions, again and again, very insistently. If I don’t apply his suggestion he gets mad and storms out, bang doors, throw stuff around and stamp his feet. A proper noisy tantrum. After that, he applies the silence treatment and I usually make the effort to start the communication again, with a neutral question first, or something not related to what happened, to help him open up. I know it is not easy for him, this is his first relationship and all he has seen before is his father being abusive to his family. But I know from our conversations that he agrees his father was abusive, but he somehow places equal responsibility on his mother because he says that she stayed. It makes my blood boil, and I do express that very clearly. He still tries to justify she must like something in the bastard, she makes her own choices, la, la, la…

My concern is that, after we went through thick and thin all these years, I’m starting to realize that I’m afraid of him. Of his fits. I tell him less and less of my concerns and even activities (we do not live together) because he can be very pushy in matters that don’t necessarily affect him, like if I want to start an online course or if I buy something online with my own earned money. I live in a shared flat, and he comes regularly for visits.

As for the last example of this type of incident, to give you all a sample: The last time he was here, he had one of these fits because one of my flatmates was working from home in the living room, that is next to my bedroom and, as the construction is of poor quality, we can hear him nearly breathing, meaning it is somehow off-putting to have sex. My partner heard my flatmates voice, started to get angrier and angrier and then went to the kitchen banging doors and drawers and making a big rackety to “make a point”. I was in the flat before them and I would have not agreed to live with someone that stayed at home all day, every day. It can be frustrating, but his reaction… And me, seeing myself trying to calm him down because he said wanted to “confront” my flatmate and mostly because he was angry with me because I, in his opinion, should have taken care of this.

I was trying to calm him down as I was saying he may like it or not, but it is not new to him I share with people, not new to him my flatmates work from home since COVID started and no new to him the walls are made of paper. He must just have had enough, I get it. But still.

He had three or four episodes of this “stormy mood” in the last few months.

He had never apologized. He acts as if nothing has happened and, if I try to speak about it, he downplays it or, if pressured he ”explains” why he got so angry i.e. Because the offices are open now, and he should get back to work as normal, or I should make him understand he should not take over the living room.

He doesn’t seem to see anything wrong with his reactions and is the rest of the people who cannot see his point.

For the last years, I have been noticing too that he doesn’t really process what I say. It is not easy to explain. If the matter is of direct interest to him he may register but if it is not, he may even answer and have a conversation as normal but later on, maybe a few weeks down the way he cannot remember what he said and sometimes accuses me of not telling him. But if he reads about the same issue in an article, for example, then he comes and shares it with me as a discovery. He rather gives some credit to an unknown writer, blogger, or poster about something that concerns me than to me, when I said, sometimes repeated it, years ago.

Things have to be his way and he cannot take from me. It is nearly always a no for an answer first.

I realized I am afraid of trying. I stopped giving him presents because he would give out about the choice, the price, whatever. Rejection, rejection, rejection.

I have to say that he is the most important person in my life and these years have been, all in all, much better because he was there. But it seems to me now that I care deeply for him but don’t like him much anymore because I am always walking on eggshells around him. Does it make sense? Do you think I can recover? Some things cannot be "unseen", but can they get diluted in the memory if the person makes some efforts?

I don’t want the aggressiveness to escalate or live the rest of my life in fear. I don’t know how to help if he doesn’t see anything wrong, and he doesn’t take any advice. I cannot see any future, and he jokes frequently about not wanting to see each other's ageing decay and about what he calls“the divorce”.

Do you see hope? Any advice? Please.

He may read this. At least I will tell him I posted it. It would feel like treason not to.

Thank you.

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Big Bag of Chips

That's what I've told him many times over the years. Some things cannot be undone, or unheard, and if the same "joke" or behaviour keeps appearing after it's made clear it is not welcome, they carve a grove, slowly.

Those consequences I was talking about it.

But these are all consequences for you. These are consequences of his actions on you. There are no consequences for him. He does what he does and his life continues on exactly the same. To put it bluntly he doesn't care. He doesn't care that his words affect you. Because you have proven to him time and time and time again that you will accept it, have a bit of a moan about it and then carry on as usual except you'll walk on eggshells a bit more, you'll amend your behaviour and reactions to avoid upsetting him. You'll smooth things over for the sake of a quiet life, and he will continue as he always has done.

So. I'll ask again, what consequences? He hasn't the capability to consider another person's point of view. He's always right. His opinion is the only relevant one. So why do you think he would care about the consequences of his words and actions on somebody else (you)? If his life isn't inconvenienced in any way then there are no consequences. No reason for him to change.

So you have told him how his words make you feel, and it doesn't make a difference. He continues. So what next? You can't change him. Not if he has no reason to. So you need to make a decision. You accept him for who he is and accept that he will always be like this, or you give him an ultimatum. He changes his behaviour or you walk away from the relationship. You then have to be prepared to walk away though.

THAT'S a consequence.

Jequ0n

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118357663#Comment_118357663

I am not judging you. Apologies if it came across that way. I often phrase things badly because I am lacking some skills.

I know which post you had responded to. The poster had asked why your partner would feel the need to change because there were never any consequences for him. Your response made it clear that there never have been any consequences for him, but only for you.

As I said: it’s entirely up to you what you want to do, but if you feel like your self esteem is under attack and you chose to do nothing about it that choice is yours too.

LaraDo

I don’t mean to sound harsh, but I don’t think you understand what others were trying to say.

I understand perfectly well.

I was answering a direct question from Big Bag of Chips.

I was clarifying what I meant.

I do not expect you to share my values.

Neither was I expecting your personal judgement of me for something you don't know. Or making assumptions about values you have no knowledge of or means to prove.

No one chooses to have their self-esteem crushed, it just happens inadvertently, and some people, when aware, ask for help.

I did that, asking for help.

Your opinion on some possible solution, and that of all the other posters that answered, by the way, is what I was asking at the beginning.

And I thank you and the others for it.

I do take the intel on board.

Your judgement, however, Jequ0n, and evaluation about what or whom you think I am are not relevant and, frankly, is not very sympathetic or helping with the solution or my self-esteem.

Jequ0n

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118357281#Comment_118357281

I don’t mean to sound harsh, but I don’t think you understand what others were trying to say.

You seem convinced that everyone thinks, or should be able to think like you do. It doesn’t work that way, and some of us simply don’t care. We don’t have the same set of values you do, which is what makes you such a good match.

If you have told him again and again and he still did not come around then you can only do one thing: accept this for what it is or leave.

This will sound cruel but it is not meant that way: there are quite a lot of people out there who accept situations and relationships even though they are unhappy, undervalued and who have their self-esteem eroded, because they chose to “unsee” it. The choice is a yours.

LaraDo

What consequences?

Emotional consequences. Memories you cannot delete and imprints you cannot reverse.

Those consequences I was talking about it.

Big Bag of Chips

I think he doesn't really get le consequences because, even when I've told him, he doesn't process what I say

What consequences?

He doesn't get the consequences, because there aren't any. He treats you badly, dismisses you, argues, bullies, sulks and you continue to be in a relationship with him. Consequences would be you walking away and leaving him to realise he doesn't get to treat you like that. That you are not his mother.

You should think about that though. He's like his father and he has picked a partner like his mother. Quiet, compliant, easy to bend to his will. He has lasted 10 years with you where another woman would have walked away years ago. He will not changed if there's no reason for him to. And at the moment, there's no reason for him to. How many times have you "told him"? What have you told him, and have you ever carried through? He will not sudddenly become a reasonable, patient man. Not unless something significant happens to force his hand.

You are the only one in control of the rest of your life. You are the only one who can make changes.

tea and coffee

I agree with those who say he is an emotional abuser. He has anger issues and doesn't know how to properly resolve things with measured communication.

He probably learned at home that is was Dad's way or no way, and that has carried into his own adult life.

Sounds like he needs counselling for his childhood trauma, but ultimately noone should have to put up with abuse. His problems are not your responsibility.

If it were me, and hard as that it, I would realise I can't fix him and for my own sake, walk away

LaraDo

I wonder if your partner suffers from Misaphonia?

No, I've never heard of it before but checked the definition and no, he doesn't.

More like a short fuse, I suppose. He's read the thread now, I think.

Mr Chuckles

I wonder if your partner suffers from Misaphonia?

Wombatman

I realize he sounds like an arsehole because I only asked here about things when things are going sour. I didn't mention the good things I saw in him to be with such a person for so long as they don't need advising. He is not horrible or a horrible person. I think he doesn't really get le consequences because, even when I've told him, he doesn't process what I say. That communication issue is ongoing for the last couple of years.

What are you getting out of the relationship? You must be getting something to put up with this sh1te.

I expect you are staying with him because of that past and that you feel like you owe him some loyalty. You don't.

List the positive things that the relationship brings to your life and all the great things you do together with this guy.

I suspect the list will be short and will no where near compensate for the horrible fear, tension and sorrow he brings to your life.

SmallgirlBigcity

By the way, you mentioned that you're not worried about him doing anything physical. I wasn't either but when I ended things, his aggression escalated to the point that I was worried he'd hurt me. He didn't but the worry was there. So be careful of that. Try not to be alone with him if you do decide to end it.

Also, my ex promised he'd go to counselling, said he'd seen the error of his ways and this was his wake up call but for me it was too late. I didn't like him anymore, let alone love him. There was nothing he could do to take back all the years of damage he'd done. So if you do make the decision to end it, try to stick to it. It's not worth sticking around while he tries to fix himself. Life is too short. I'm with someone now who is so calm and supportive and I wonder what the hell I was doing for so long, letting someone treat me like that. But I understand that it's so hard when you're in it. Best of luck.

SmallgirlBigcity

I could have written this myself a few years ago. I was in a long term relationship with someone like that. He would have rages and be aggressive but never hit me. But I was afraid of him. And he put me down a lot. He was emotionally abusive but I couldn't see it at the time.

Id always make excuses for him and he had a difficult childhood so I felt sorry for him. I met someone else in work and having those feelings for someone else made me realise that I needed to leave, and I did. It was the best thing I ever did. It's only when you're out of it that you can see how bad it was. I'd recommend trying to leave the relationship but I know it's not easy either. You'll continue to tell yourself that there's good things about the relationship and the length of time you've been together makes it harder to leave to. Reading Erica Jongs book Fear of Flying really helped me. My advice is to leave. You end up not even liking the other person and find yourself more relaxed and happier when they're not there. That's not what a relationship should be like. Best of luck. I hope you get out. I'm so so glad I did. It was the best decision of my life.

rainbowtrout

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118321427#Comment_118321427

Ah here. You've said yourself you've come to the realisation that you're afraid of him and you don't want to live in a battlefield. Nice people don't do that to their partners in relationships. Horrible people do. Stop making excuses for this nasty man. Stop making excuses for him, step back and look at the situation as it is.

Yurt2

If someone doesn't know how to apologize, there's no point in wasting your life with that nonsense.

I've had people in my life like that as well, they have other qualities, but their inability to apologise when it would be glaringly obvious to other humans to do so corrodes all the good over time.

It's like a personality impairment that some people have and they alienate so many people with it. It's sad, but don't waste much more of your life if you think he doesn't have the will to change.

HildaOgdenx

My concern is that, after we went through thick and thin all these years, I’m starting to realize that I’m afraid of him.

I didn't get much further in reading your OP, after this. You need to get yourself out of this, safely. And as soon as possible.

cj maxx

i find it hard to disagree with Purple Mountain.

Purple Mountain

He is a man child.

I'd be mortified if he were my boyfriend and would have walked years ago, OP.

JoChervil

I cannot see any future, and he jokes frequently about not wanting to see each other's ageing decay and about what he calls“the divorce”.

I hope it means only a split, not a suicide?

sporina

OP if he has no awareness of how out of control he is, he won't change.. my advice would be to leave him.. change is difficult but best in the long run. take care of you - you deserve better xxx

JoChervil

I think he has unresolved issues, which he barely keeps a lead on, hence outbursts. You can't help him. He needs a long process of therapy to resolve it. But you are codependent in all this. To break it, you need to learn how to set boundaries.

From your description, he might be on a spectrum, so kudos for you for accepting such difficulties, if it is so. Yet you should set boundaries anyway. It might be the first step.

As far as communication is concerned. I always recommend "Non-violent communication". Great book how to get to people, who don't listen because of their defence mechanisms. You literally have to ask people to repeat to you, what you just said. And let them talk first so then, being heard, they can listen. But I am afraid, he needs months of therapy to be able to listen. He is just too much into his inner problems.

I think deep down, he knows he is an a***hole, that's why he is joking about "divorce". On his own he is not capable to change, so I think he expects you to leave. Maybe even subconsciously he wants it because it would force him to change? Otherwise it will be "ageing decay" from his part.

I think in this story about his mother, he tries not to feel guilty about his bad treatment of you. And he is somehow right. If you stay, it means you accept such treatment and you are even enabling it. Maybe by telling you his mother's story he is showing you a way out of it? For you and for him?

LaraDo

I am sorry if my words are harsh, but I believe when you finished the opening post and presumably read back over it before posting, you already had your answer, right in front of you.

I suppose you are right but still wanted to give that a different go. To open up to other people angles, to make sure I wasn't missing a solution or a helping resource right in front of my face. I have been going over and over in my head so many times in the last few days that I needed to make sure I wasn't getting lost in a spiral and not seeing the obvious exit to that maze.

It's been the longest and more important relationship of my life. I want to be sure I cover every angle and exhaust every possibility.

farmerval

Quite simply OP, you are not living the life that you deserve. Much of your time and energy is going as a buffer between him and the world, like an airbag diffusing his Lordship's tantrums. This is not a relationship.

If you stay together there will never be room for you in the relationship, your life will only ever be in relation to him, not in relation to your wants, your needs. It will always be about him, all you will ever be is an accoutrement, someone or something that makes his life easier, smooths over whatever ruffles him at any time.

Your post is so human and warm and the most positive thing you can say about your ten year relationship is that it was better being with him than without. The big question is, how do you know it's better? Look at your friends, are they in relationships where significant others actually share their lives, do stuff together, support each other, socialise with each others friends, normal stuff.

The most shocking thing in your opening post is that you can see this is getting worse, you are enabling him to become a bigger pig than he already is. I would say forget therapy, forget helping him, or turning things around, he's grooming you to be the same as his mother, a woman he obviously despises but wants to replicate for himself.

The only way therapy would be of benefit is if he wanted it, nothing to do with you, purely and utterly off his own bat because he wants to change. Do you see that happening?

I can only assume, but when a long term relationship is fading away, it must be hard to let it go, ten years of each other can't be wiped away easily, but for you to have the life you want and deserve I suspect you have no choice but cut the cord. You said yourself, he can accept nothing coming from you, what does that say, it says he doesn't value you.

I am sorry if my words are harsh, but I believe when you finished the opening post and presumably read back over it before posting, you already had your answer, right in front of you. Now is the time to go forward and find someone that deserves you, and that you deserve. Don't waste more time on a lost cause.

LaraDo

You mentioned your friends. Have you spoken to them about this, or to any of your family. How does he feel about you going out with your friends or family, without him?

He doesn't mind. And It is not a big issue for me either. It is only on some occasions that I would have liked to have him included or even show up, and he refused, that it was a tender spot for me. I do understand he's not a social person.

What about kids?

We don't have, and I would not have any due to my age and my personal choice, he knows from the beginning, no surprises or change of mind in that department for any of us.

wildwillow

You can disentangle yourself from this relationship easily enough now. Read some of the threads here where people are in a destructive relationship but, because property and children are involved, cannot easily leave.

You are not even living together after ten years. There is no real commitment and you are not getting hapinness.

Turn a new page and get yourself the life you deserve.

Ave Sodalis

OP the only way, and I mean the only way this is going to improve is if he realises himself that what he's doing is not normal, and seeks extensive therapy to deal with this manifestation of past trauma. By the sounds of it, it doesn't seem like he will admit to it and the reality is, it may take a momentous change for him (such as you breaking up) to see, if he sees at all.

So you're life with what you are going to do about it. Is this something you want to live with forever? Walking on egg shells, thinking about everything you're going to say, waiting for him to decide you're too old for him (ageing decay, what?). What about kids? They're much worse than housemates for disrupting a sex life. What will he do with them when they're constantly making noise and being present in the house when he wants sex? What would those kids learn when they see their father can stamp his feet and throw a tantrum, then get what he wants?

Loafing Oaf

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118321059#Comment_118321059

I wouldn't waste any more time in that relationship.

This could and pasted into nearly every thread in this forum. I suppose the reason it's not followed more readily is that for a lot of women a bad man (even a very bad one) is better than none at all (which would be the realistic alternative for many).

But in this case it looks like a no brainer.

bottlebrush

You mentioned your friends. Have you spoken to them about this, or to any of your family. How does he feel about you going out with your friends or family, without him?

If he doesn't take direction from you or listen to what you have to say, I can't see him being receptive to a suggestion of going to therapy. He seems to believe there's absolutely nothing wrong with him and will likely dismiss it as your imagination. Gaslighting, in other words.

His parents relationship may explain his behaviour but it does not excuse it. I truly believe that conflict reveals character - his real character is what he is in times of conflict. And no amount of whatever good you see in him can wipe that slate.

You're not married, you don't have children together. Can you imagine if you were living together what it would be like, given his behaviour in your flat and towards another person whose home it is? You think you're walking on eggshells now?

Jequ0n

I would not blame or judge him for the comments on his mother, OP. I refer to mine as a raging idiot who willingly remained in a disastrous relationship. He will have his reasons for his view, and I wouldn’t challenge this.

I assume it bothers you because you are worried of parallels here, which is of course a possibility. None of us know if he is like his father, and it’s also not really too relevant I think. The main problem is that he is unwilling to entertain the idea that there is something he needs to change. Since we can just assume I will guess that there have never been consequences for his tantrums, which made him realise that he is very much responsible for his own actions.

All I can say is that I was far worse than what you are describing, and I certainly never considered that I was heading down a route of total destruction. Given my selfishness I only noticed I had to change how I acted when I realise that there were repercussions for me.

Now I can’t tell you what threat of consequences would work to make him realise something. Hearing that you can’t continue staying in the relationship unless he tries therapy might do the trick, or it might not. If his outburst are not causing him suffering he might not care. But if he is escalating then it’s probably time to set up boundaries, which is something you have not managed to do in the past.

Dial Hard

I'm not normally this blunt on here, but I think you need to hear it like this:

You've wasted 10 years on a controlling dickhead with anger issues.

You ask if there's any hope, which I think is the wrong question. The real question is why have you put up with this for so long, and are you willing to waste another 10 years on him??? Is this your first relationship too, by any chance?

But to answer your question, no, I don't think there's any hope. It's very difficult for any couple to unlearn a decade of behaviour and dynamics, and quite frankly, he hasn't once shown even the slightest inclination that he wants to (or thinks he should) try.

The Raging Bile Duct

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118321427#Comment_118321427

Honestly, it wouldn't matter if he pulled flowers out of his hole to give you everyday and whispered sweet nothings into your ear as you fell asleep each night, trying to pick fights with your flatmates and victim blaming his own mother would be enough red flags for me to say that this relationship is only going one way if you continue in it.