What's that stream of nonsense got to do with my post?
True, but in the Republic that means spending a fortune and hoping just to get back where we were before. And if we can't raise the money we'll all be worse off.
Yes blanch we know bigger countries will cost more. That's a given.
But we also get more.
Every government has had to convince people that infrastructural projects would produce a benefit, same thing here.
They tend to gloss over how we pay for things too!
How would you like us to pay for unification? Don't want to borrow beyond our means again.
'Where we were before'???
Who's proposing that?
Our economy isn't hindered by partition and from what I can gather as a lay person performs pretty good for our size internationally.
The addition of 6 counties makes no difference to us in terms of generating revenue. Might save a few quid where services overlap but a fraction of what needs to be put in.
What makes you think that the economic performance of the 26 would improve if unified with the other 6?
Remember the topic is 'cost'.
Not necessarily. You are assuming every party is as corrupt as FF/FG. Might actually shake them up in fact. Political landscape will change, no doubt. Thats why FF/FG fear a UI.
Also as my previous post suggests, we already spend on cronies and get only hardship for it. Spending on a UI gets us a UI.
I thought the issues SF where having in Derry were due to cronyism and not sharing the spoils of partition?
You are making a UI all about SF. Its not. I know FG'ers would vote for a UI.
The economy in the Republic is hindered by the border. , maybe someone in Dublin wouldn't know this. Try living in Donegal, Leitrim, Cavan, Monaghan. Those places were held back for years and imo are still recovering the breaking off. I know that things are better in the last 20 years, but still.
Just pointing out its not really a change, just different people benefit. Property developers replaced with "Good Republicans".
Who's 'they'? What have 'they' got to do with me?
We will pay for reunification in the normal manner in which we pay for the State today.
I will now stress that I have no interest in rehashing this nonsense with you. Though I suspect that it will be put to me that "I am running from the questions" or something along those lines from you or another one of the zealous partitionists.
How are they hindered? What prevents FDI in Cavan rather than Tipperary for example?
You quoted me first. Bit strange to be whining that I answered! But yes, you are running from the questions. We'll borrow whatever we need and worry about paying it back later isn't much of a plan!
Isn't that how sovereign debt works? Enlighten me please.
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Still haven't answered my questions as to what 'they' have to do with me?
You know I'm not Sinn Féin and that Sinn Féin don't have ownership over a UI? Or do we need to rehash that crap as well?
Isnt there a cohort here that call it bandit country when it suits
Fair enough. My point was regarding cost. We already spend on cronies which doesn't help, spending for a UI gets us a UI.
Are you not a SF supporter? Sorry if I have got that wrong. Didn't mean to insult you!
Jaysus, are you really saying that us borrowing from the markets has no consequences. That a badly managed UI couldn't lead to increased, debt, increased interest repayments etc? You are essentially saying don't worry about the cost, we'll just borrow it like we normally do. Have we as a nation learnt nothing from the crash?
Only reason I could come up with too. Is it fair or are there no reasons why Cavan can't perform like a county in Munster etc?
One would imagine an international border controlled by another country with....questionable motives when it comes to the EU, and with questions about whether said country will actually uphold the international agreement it signed up to would provide a great deal more instability that would impact one's decision to make a long term investment in Cavan versus Tipperary.
If you were to make a substantial investment, would that not come into your own consideration? If so, why pretend the glaringly obvious doesn't exist?
Is this a serious contribution to the discussion?
Like bigger costs more? Well knock me over, that is just so simplistic an analysis that I can't believe it is serious. Nobody has ever disputed that the total cost of a united Ireland will be greater, not that the total tax take from a united Ireland will be greater.
What has been said, demonstrated and backed up with relevant research, and what you have continuously failed to appreciate is that the increases in tax revenue will be insufficient to meet the increased costs, leaving a gap to be filled by taxation. No amount of waffling or spoofing about economic growth will close that gap.
As for infrastructural spending, there is a huge difference between the purposes of capital expenditure (investment in public transport, bridges, schools and hospitals) and current expenditure (increasing social welfare rates for people in the North*)
*The increases in social welfare in the North will be needed because the DUP/SF government have failed to keep up with social welfare provision in the South, most notable recently where SF have complained about PUP in the South, while overseeing lower rates in the North.
But exporting to the UK/EU/US from Cavan or Tipp is exactly the same. So not a valid point for FDI.
I think it's time you did some research JH.
I'm not here to convince you or to fill gaps in your knowledge.
I am not expert in social welfare provision, but when a plan is being made I am sure that will be one of the issues addressed.
They will have to be sorted if a plan is being made.
Yes, and it is plainly obvious to anyone who looks at the issue that you have two basic choices
(1) You can harmonise social welfare rates upwards to the higher one in each jurisdiction. This ensures that no individual social welfare recipient gets a cut. However, there is a large cost to this, which will have to result in increased taxation.
(2) You can harmonise social welfare rates downwards to the lower one in each jurisdiction. This ensures that there is no increase in taxation, but it means that an awful lot of people will have their social welfare rate cut.
Running a business in Cavan and Tipp certainly isn't the exact same, JH. Ease of export isn't the only thing that impacts FDI.
You can hardly handwave away the social/political instability of an uncertain border, along with the risk of whatever could happen should it harden. Genuinely put yourself in the position of someone making a substantial long term investment and try tell me with a straight face that it wouldn't be a consideration for you?!
Certainty/predictability are massive factors for FDI, and the proximity of uncertainty controlled by an at best unsympathetic, at worst potentially malicious external government is so obviously a factor that would affect FDI that I'm honestly perplexed we're even discussing this. Not much FDI happening in Syria recently....
Or come up with a completely new rate?
It will have to be sorted one way or another if a plan is made.
Francie, if you can't think of any reason just admit it. Fooling nobody.
A completely new rate? What muddled thinking is that??
Say in Ireland the rate is €200 and in Northern Ireland it is €150. Instead of either paying everyone €200 or €150, you want to pay them a completely new rate. Would that be €100, €175 or €250?
I'm saying nothing of the sort. But of course that doesn't matter to your good self. It's good to see that your tenacity for wearing us all down with needless and mind-numbing repetition of oft-explained and refuted points continues on.
Anyway whilst not being an SF supporter, I am also not SF the organisation. They do not hold a monopoly on a UI or its discussion. You know this. Kindly heed that for once perhaps. Then again, if you were to do that you may get lost in clarity.
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