Championship showdown this weekend. Will Lewis win his eight title or will Max win his first? All will be revealed on Sunday.
TV Times:
Qualifying Live: 1PM. (Sky Sports)
Race Live: 1PM. (Sky Sports and Channel 4)
Bring! It! On!
Speaking of ignoring, why not answer the question?
Why did Masi not take the logical step of no cars unlapping and just restarting the race?
I pointed out the rule where the race director can pull in the safety car whenever he wants. I seem to be the only one here linking to rules.
Care to link to the rule where it says the race director must leave the safety car out until every eligible car is unlapped?
At this stage you're just selecting the rules you like and ignoring the ones you don't. Just like Mercedes.
I think there are inconsistencies in the rules that have plagued the entirety of the championship. This was just one of many, I don’t think it is necessarily wrong though, just inconsistent. This one call is highlighted because it was the last lap of the season, but there have been many more that have effected the championship too.
So the lesser of two evils is to throw out standard procedure that would have favoured Hamliton, in favour of making up rules to favour Max.
I think you know damn well you have no examples of the race director selectively telling some cars to go but others to stay in that fashion.
Tell me though, if not finishing behind the safety car was the overriding concern, why not just say that no cars will be unlapping themselves and that the race will be restarting immediately?
That would have been far more logical, no?
Toto was doing exactly the same. Mid race a car parked up on exit of T9 I think. Toto was on race radio telling the RD not to put out a safety car. So who was influencing who?
Here's the rule on unlapping:
[quote]
The Formula 1® regulations for 2021 state: "If the clerk of the course considers it safe to do so, and the message 'LAPPED CARS MAY NOW OVERTAKE' has been sent to all competitors via the official messaging system, any cars that have been lapped by the leader will be required to pass the cars on the lead lap and the safety car.
"This will only apply to cars that were lapped at the time they crossed the line at the end of the lap during which they crossed the first safety car line for the second time after the safety car was deployed. Having overtaken the cars on the lead lap and the safety car these cars should then proceed around the track at an appropriate speed, without overtaking, and make every effort to take up position at the back of the line of cars behind the safety car.
"Whilst they are overtaking, and in order to ensure this may be carried out safely, the cars on the lead lap must always stay on the racing line unless deviating from it is unavoidable. Unless the clerk of the course considers the presence of the safety car is still necessary, once the last lapped car has passed the leader the safety car will return to the pits at the end of the following lap."
The rules do not specify whether the race director may allow only some of the lapped cars to pass, and not all. This is why Michael Masi's decision to release only the cars between Verstappen and Hamilton, allowing for a final lap of racing between the title contenders, has caused such a debate.
[/quote]
Abu Dhabi Grand Prix last-lap… | Formula 1® Australian Grand Prix
Unlapping is within the rules.
But the main rule is the Race Director can pull in the Safety car any time he wants, regardless of how many cars are unlapped.
Mercedes have nothing to stand on here. Move on, take it on the chin. They should stop trying to turn it into a borefest.
It didn’t sit right with me when Toto called for no SC to Masi when Giovanazzi retired - that was bad form.
And then he wants the race to finish under the SC?!
The lead driver is regularly at a disadvantage under a SC condition - the old track position vs fresh tyres predicament. Lewis lost out on this occasion and accepted it gracefully.
But it is only wrong because process and rules were not followed. Had they been, maintaining track position was the correct call. The SC should have been in the following lap, not the lap it came in on.
And the stewards saying once the message was given it had to happen is a misnomer. Yes, the SC had to come in once the message was given.... but the message should not have been given in the first place. That is the problem.
And I could reply to this with Ricciardo’s team radio at the end where he made very clear that it was a shitshow and that he was glad he wasn’t involved in it. Stroll was fuming (more for his own race rather than the title fight but still).
Lando has also gone public about it. It’s dividing the drivers as well, despite what Alonso says his opinion isn’t the only one in the paddock.
This radio conversation really highlights the reality of what happened, for all Mercedes complaining. Standard procedure is to let the lapped cars through and get going and that’s what everyone expected to happen. When they first announced they weren’t going to do it, undoubtedly due to the continued heavy lobbying from Toto, it was blatantly clear to other drivers like Alonso that this was being done to fix the race.
Good sense eventually prevailed and correct procedures were eventually followed, but due to the delays there wasn’t enough time for all lapped cars to make it through, but that was the lesser of two evils over throwing out the standard procedure to favour Mercedes.
Why should I have to give examples?
Who on earth wants the tightest F1 championship in history decided behind a safety car? If they do, just give F1 a miss and find some other sport.
This championship was decided by two drivers going man to man and one driver losing his bottle while the other driving brilliantly. That's how we want it decided.
The rules have been inconsistantly applied all season, most people agree on that. That's because F1 is a fast sport. But the rules and mistakes even themselves out.
We can go back over numerous examples where one team or another benefitted.
Mercedes being allowed put a new engine in for the last 4 races is just a joke for example, but within the rules. They got a 5 place penalty which Hamilton made up in a couple of laps and then went on to win the race at a cantor.
In the last race, Verstappen is asked to give up his position after going off the track. When Hamilton goes off he's not asked to give it up.
Ultimately it was fair and right, with all the rule inconsistances that the two front runners were allowed to race it out. Hamilton had ample opportunity to win on the last lap. Verstappen had one opportunity to pass and took it. Hamiliton had 2 or 3 and failed to take any.
Better driver won. I know that won't go down well with people who wanted it decided by the lawyers, but who cares.
The irony being it was an incident with Hamilton being released with the fuel hose still attached which resulted in it being banned during the race!
The result doesn't sit right with me at all and i'm a big fan of both drivers and F1, Horner seemed to influence what happened in getting the race going again which doesn't seem right but i'm sure Toto would probably have done the same.
But that's F1, there's a history of dodgy calls and decisions and i guess max is the more marketable F1 star going forward, coincidence ? i'm not sure. One thing is for sure, the gloves will really be off next year.
Don't have to give examples? Thats convenient.
Incredible that people can twist themselves in knots to fanwank away what Masi did. He was completely wrong, he bastardised the rules to engineer a finish and he should not have done it.
Its done, Verstappen is champion and that won't be changing. But Masi acted inappropriately and Mercedes are damn right to feel aggrieved about it.
Mostly from a health and safety point of view, they don't refuel anymore. You don't really want to rush a fuel stop and there was plenty of examples of it going haywire.
Also the cost - pit teams having to dress in fire retardant gear, practising etc.
They've put bigger tanks in the cars now and lengthened the cars to take them. Personally I don't miss the refueling. And some drivers ran out of fuel on the lap while trying to gain an advantage.
You were complaining about Hamilton wanting to do better for the environment and calling him a hypocrite and you’re now saying they should bring back refuelling.
Couldn't make it up.
No, I’m not certain. That’s not important though, these sort of decisions win or lose races and Mercedes made the wrong decision. It doesn’t matter if I say that with hindsight or not.
How come there's no refueling anymore? Are engines that much more efficient?
I feel there's far more strategic planning required by allowing refueling. Allows more multi pit strategies. All pits are extremely quick now.
I don't have to give you examples.
People are complaining about rules and when you point out some admittedly obscure rules of F1, they complain about something else or try to focus selectively on the rules like Mercedes are doing.
There are a lot of rules to F1, hundreds if not thousands.
But the over-arching one appears to be that that race director has the final say. This is the main one. F1 races happen at over 100 miles an hour. Race Directors have to think fast and on their feet.
Masi was within the rules to pull in the safety car whenever he wanted. Everything after that is probably secondary. The reason for allowing cars unlap themselves is so they don't get in the way of the front runners competing. This is perfectly fair and within the rules as is pitting under a safety car.
If they allow pitting under a safety car, then they have to allow cars to unlap, otherwise it puts the second car at a huge disadvantage.
Mercedes complaining about rules not being followed is massive sore loser stuff.
Even with the safety cars and cars unlapping Hamilton had a number of chances to win the race, particularly on the final lap. He had the straighline speed. But he always wants to go on the outside rather than risk going on the inside and in fairness Max put him out there. Verstappen is a better driver imo in a slightly inferior car.
There's been little mention of Hamiltons gaining a huge advantage on the first lap. And as for Mercedes sticking a new engine in the car every so often, taking the 5 place penalty but gaining almost a second a lap on everyone else, it makes a mockery of fairness.
The problem with Mercedes is they like to have F1 titles handed to them on a plate with a huge advantage and to have it practically sown up mid season. With a massive budget, all they are doing is buying titles left right and centre. Great for them, but terminal for the sport of F1.
Oh. You can tell I haven't watched it in a long time!
Merc did anticipate a safety car. Not too long before it happened there was comms broadcast between Lewis and Bonno discussing what tyre to pit for in the event of a safety car and Lewis said either work fine (M or H) So clearly it was something they were thinking about.
Theres no refueling allowed in F1.
Cars start the race with the fuel they need and thats it.
One thing I'll say about this is it's always a more difficult decision for the lead car. Look at Lando in the Russian GP this year. He decided to stay out because he didn't want to give up track position. Lewis pitted as it was essentially a free hit for him.
Mercedes absolutely gambled by leaving Lewis out. And I have to say he was incredibly unlucky. But the difference between some cars unlapping themselves no cars doing it isn’t the defining reason he lost the race.
And I guess the problem is there wouldn't be enough time to refuel every car in the pits if there's only 1 or 2 safety laps?
Fuel.
Formula E tried this last year (not counting safety car laps) and in a race most of the cars ran out of power trying to complete those extra laps at the end.
The cars are fuelled for the race distance with little or no margin.
Probably a stupid question, but how come laps that are behind a safety car are counted toward the race? As in, if the car is out for 2/58 laps then you race until 60 laps.
Is it cause of tyres / engine conditions? Or would it give an advantage to chasing cars to get a free pit then a few extra laps?
Daimler/Mercedes are very wary of their image right now with the whole emissions scandal and don't need Toto Wolff dragging the Mercedes brand through the mud. I'm sure the execs in HQ in Stuttgart don't want this headache.
