so you support fanatically a clearly undemocratic party is that not true francie ?
no one really knows who is in charge of sf so no one knows what their agenda is ? even the bould gerry maintains the connection with a criminal terrorist organisation that you claim no longer exists . sound more like a cartel doesn't it ?
Yes. Nobody said no? For those who said 'yes at some point', you give them a vote, knowing how long it took to organise, I can't see them saying no.
It would be a landslide down south in any case.
People have more immediate concerns than a UI and always will.
I heard that about SF a few years ago.
Any way you can want a UI and not even be Irish, never mind nationalist.
I think a UI is a long way off but will happen some day. I would be fine with a new flag, I don’t like the current one anyway, a new anthem and I’d be open to one without words like Spain has and a new updated constitution.
What?
How is that showing that what I said is 'undemocratic'?
Interesting thread.
85% aged 18-24 said there should be a border poll at some point in the future, 72% think it should be held within the next 10 years.
Quite clear why those who think a BP would be easy won wouldn't dare call for one.
Political unification will be the capstone of the project. Divergence in trade/movement in Ireland N/S is now well outside the Overton Window except to the most bitter unionists/partitionists. When the time comes, those of us in the 26 Counties who want to end partition should put the onus on those who don't to come up with a plan for it, because this state and everything that goes with it will not be theirs to inherit.
You want those who don't want a UI to plan it? That makes no sense.
We don't have a plan because SF fear the drop in support when the cost / tax increases are revealed.
Unification isn't important to the majority. No chance they'll pay for it.
Ashcroft described his poll as any early xmas present for unionist. Big drop in support since his last poll.
Those on the UI side more likely to change thier mind too. Lets see if these young people still feel the same in the next 10/20 years .
We have very senior members of all main parties and Fine Gael saying they want a UI. The idea that its a phase might be true for some but I can't see many voting against it. Also we get new young voters every year.
With regards to it being a phase, that came from the NI poll only. Republicans were more likely to have changed their mind in the last year than Unionists. Lines up well with the LucidTalk poll were the Unionist vote has remained steady and the loss/gains seen by Republicans is just movement from the Don't Knows rather than any real gains from the soft Unionist side that would be needed to give a majority.
I can see that for Unionists. Its like if there was a United Ireland Party. Their membership would be unlikely to vote against it.
For me, I think much of the UK don't care and a good portion must be tired of the hassle of dealing with NI.
The big mistake was not renaming the region. People are always going to associate Northern Ireland with Ireland and Ulster with, well Ulster. Hard to argue that they don't belong together to outsiders.
Its a matter of time before we see a UI. FF/FG will talk it up but never do anything. Suits them.
If SF get in I expect we'll see more than talk.
Takes a fair amount of negative spinning to be downplaying 41% in favour when there is not even a plan yet.
As soon as plans are announced, people will shy away from it.
Just look at the recent poll from the South.
There are more people who couldn't give a rats ass about it than those who really want a UI while the silent majority have it as a 'nice aspiration'..... yet as soon as you mention trivial things like flags and anthems, support plummets like a stone, never mind when a plan shows the people will have to pay more taxes and/or sacrifice public services. Because someone is going to have to pay for all this...
Nah, for all the talk, I cannot see a UI in the next 15-20 years.
I expect the plan to have a negative effect on the polling both sides of the border. In the Republic, once people are aware of the cost they'll lose interest completely. Even now it's not important to most.
In NI, I suspect they'll be worried what would happen if the Republic were not to pay off the deficit each year? The subvention has increased every year, I believe, but it's small money to the British. With partition , things can't get worse as the British will foot the bill. In a UI it's possible they could get worse depending on funding.
Funny, most media is spinning the southern vote as a large majority in favour.
Large majority of voters in Republic in favour of Irish unity – poll (irishexaminer.com)
Large majority of voters in Republic in favour of Irish unity – poll - Independent.ie
Large majority of voters favour a united Ireland, poll finds (irishtimes.com)
Partitionists have to find the negatives though I suppose. Gonna be a long campaign for youse when it starts,
the lads may give up their complaining. The facts are showing how wrong they are, and that people want to see a UI. People also support SF - another bug bear. Must be terrible backing so many losing horses. Roll on the next election.
Problem is France, nobody wants to pays for it and we know it's not going to be cheap.
If SF can deliver a UI that doesn't involve tax increases or curtailment of public spending, even I'll vote for it.
Not very likely though is it?
Depends what you are looking for.
For me, what a UI will deliver is beyond cost.
I would expect that to be to the forefront of the governments plan. Remember Jh, people's minds can be changed on these things. Look to Scotland - 32% when the referendum was called. NI is at 41% without a plan.
Scary times for the naysayers.
NI isn't Scotland though. What markers are there to suggest the trending will go the same way? Is the Scottish economy as bad as NI etc? I've no idea but what has convinced you that the same trend will occur?
Francie, a UI is important to you but you are in the minority cohort in this case. For the majority it's not important. People don't tend to invest in things that aren't important to them. Combined with the level of investment required I'm struggling to see how you came to the conclusion that the plan will help your cause?
Hey JH...why don't you tell us why you are so negative all the time?
41% is a hell of a place to be without a plan. With so many in the younger bracket in favour it is easier to be positive about it. NI is not Scotland - correct, what is being pointed out is the fact that big movements can happen, so polls really indicate very little when there is no plan.
As I said, I've covered this in a great deal more detail before in response to you and your pals pulling up this nonsense.....and rather than address my points, posters have gone scurrying off, dropped the point and pretended it never happened before throwing the same sh*te up a few months later, so you'll excuse me if I don't take the time to provide a heavily sourced, more comprehensive explanation on each of those starting points, but in my experience it isn't worth the effort only to have you pretend it didn't happen and pop back in six months to parrot off the, 'Ireland was never united' line again
It's almost like I'm psychic....
So there is nothing to indicate that NI will follow the same pattern as Scotland?
We know from the opinion polls that unification isn't important to most people (was / is that the case in Scotland for independence?). We also know that a UI would cost a fortune. Why would people for whom a UI isn't important pay for that? It's not like they will see any benefit from it.
Ha ha ha the NEGATIVE spin in all it's glory again.
'Not very important' becomes isn't important'. Brilluant!
The point of the Scottish comparison is that minds can be changed.
So just that "minds can be changed". Not much to pin your hopes on to be fair.
Said it before, I don't think it's any accident we haven't seen a plan. The benefits are minor and the cost huge. With the current apathy in the Republic could be a while yet before any party will risk it.
We haven't seen a plan because the power swap have been pretending they are in favour of a UI when it actually scares the bejaysus out of them and their grip on that power.
That's all changing in front of your eyes.
I agree, i think they are pretending they are interested. The sudden interest probably to take some votes back off SF but based on the polls , a UI wasn't a factor in people's switch from FG/FF to SF anyways.
Obviously, SF care but they are afraid what a plan might do to the numbers.
Looks like their grip on power is gone but it's not going to lead to a UI anytime soon with the numbers north and south and the basket case the NI economy is.
They are in favour for it so long nothing changes....
Most here know that there will be huge changes. New flags and anthems are easy things to fix but it appears for many even those are a red line.
Sure, even for SF voters a UI is a minor thing.
As regards those who "really want it", not much more effort required for those 'in favour'.
I bet you one shiny donkey, no party in the south will campaign for a 'no' vote. The only bad actors I can see are the like of FG doing a 'if you do want not to vote for disagreeing with the amendment in paragraph C, do say no'.
We pay through the nose to line the pockets of vulture funds and various 'lessons learned'. Paying for a UI will be a pleasure.
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