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Angus Bull for Suckler Herd

Pat2

Just wondering if any of you have any experience using an Aberdeen Angus bull on continental cows in a suckler herd. We have been breeding continentals for years and have used simmental, limo, charolais and sold as weanlings but I'm thinking of crossing my simmental/charolais cows with an angus bull and holding the offset spring to try and finish them at 20/22 months with just 1 winter in the shed. My reasoning is that they should calf easier, less maintenance (no de-horning), and with the angus bonus in the factory and possible reduction in slaughter age I think it might suit. Any comments are appreciated.

Thanks

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Grueller

I have to agree with Jjameson on this one.

I carried sucklers here for years. Still have about 40 of them. I am just in after calving one. She will cost me on 2021 costings €760 to keep for the year. I will sell a weanling/yearling from her for €1000 average.

I have a computerised calf feeder purchased. That will do the same work as the 40 sucklers. I carried 15 bucket reared sucks to 13-14 months and sold them in the spring gone by. They averaged 365 kilos and I sold them from the yard for €2 a kilo so €730 per head. Their costs were €560 per head.

Suckler calf €240 margin. Dairy cross €170 margin. I can carry 3 young dairy cross for 1 suckler and calf combination. €510 margin vs €240 and that is at €1000 average for weanlings which I would say puts me in the top 25% performing herds at a guess. That is not a boast, just a fact, and still it's not viable.

squinn2912

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118308056#Comment_118308056

So are you for getting rid of your sucklers?

Cattle are a good trade at the moment but if they were to take a dip my concern would be that the poorer quality dairy cross wouldn’t hold their value.

The last animals here we sold were a group of heifers and they averaged £2.38 for 617kgs at £1477 so if I convert to Euro to measure like for like then thats about €1,715. They were around 18 months so that’s about 40p x 300 days so they’ve cost another £120-150 to feed means they’re still leaving about £650 or so behind them and I’ve also deducted the £20/head the mart take which would be equal for the dairy cross. I still think we’re getting out at that.

Grueller

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118308066#Comment_118308066

I am letting them go squinn. I just can't carry the workload with all of the batches. Sounds mad I know but at times suckling has created up to 6 batches of cattle here. Autumn calved bulls, autumn calved heifers, spring calved cows, dry cows, replacement heifers, stock bulls not in use. That is without anything in sick bay. Its just too much while working part time off farm also and milking as well.

squinn2912

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118308260#Comment_118308260

I think we all overed the amount of batches on another thread and yea it does add up with sucklers but you’d have a fair few with dairy stock too. I’d forgotten that you milk as well. That means you have a supply of dairy cross calves as it is and you know all about them including the start they’re getting etc. I think you’d need to be doing one or the other especially if you work out too you’d have an awful lot on your plate.

Easten

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118308056#Comment_118308056

I sold a batch of 10 Suckler bred heifers between 9 and 11 months old last week. Highest price 910, lowest 845 Lim X and Charolais X off 4 nd 5 star cows. Not bad stock, averaging around 330kg no meal given to them. Hardly setting the world on fire and if I took your costing of €760 that leaves an average margin of about €115. I'd need 350 of them to make the average Industrial wage!!!!

blue5000

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118308751#Comment_118308751

Don't forget to add on all the money from the various schemes we have to go through to actually make money out of sucklers. Genomics, beep, beam, LFA, hen harriers, glas. You wouldn't get too many of these in forestry. I've probably forgotten a couple.

squinn2912

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118308751#Comment_118308751

So where do you go from here?

Easten

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118309127#Comment_118309127

That is the question.

Getting 800-900 for Weanlens was just about ok up to about 2 years ago. Today it's just not cutting it.

I must add that on the mart day mine were at the top end of the price range. There was several pens of Heifers sold below this. I seen 250kg heifers struggling to make 640

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118308831#Comment_118308831

Genomics + Beep is worth about 180/cow to me, I know figures might be better or worse for some. The rest of the payments I'd get if I only kept a few donkeys or was in Forestry.

I was expecting far better prices this year, we should have seen price rises of at least 20% to be at a stand still.

squinn2912

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118309586#Comment_118309586

No that’s no use. If you’re going for the weanlin market then in my opinion you need a heavier early calf. 250kgs is no use even if they sell well. Without even looking at costs €640 or even £640 wouldn’t look at keeping a cow and giving you anything back. I can’t mind who but someone was on here last year arguing the merit of calving in December so that he would have that strong weanling, I thought it too early but I don’t sell weanlings it doesnt suit me. Unless a really flashy one straight off the cow would make as much as a weanling as he would nearly 6 months later. Weanlings in our local mart were making £1050 to £1150 for quality ones 350-400 kgs, that would be meeting you. That’s top end though tbf

Me and my da will need to really sit down and figure out numbers for autumn compared to spring calving and see what makes more sense. For our ground vs shed capacity we’re maxed though so that’s why it’s likely to remain spring autumn split and it means animals to sell for cash flow for larger portions of the year which is an advantage too.

Hard Knocks

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118309586#Comment_118309586

Other years the 300-350kg calf was top price, this year it was the 400kg+ calf is it due to the Italian trade?

September is a better month to sell

Hard Knocks

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118308056#Comment_118308056

That’s good weights, you’re a top operator

Lost a calf in Spring and fostered a BBX heifer, went back a few weeks later and bought 3 FR bulls, weighted all a few weeks ago heifer 300kg, bulls 230kg, a June born suckler CH calf @ 330kg, bulls are getting 4kg daily between the 3, nothing else getting nuts

minerleague

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118310629#Comment_118310629

If every suckler farmer stops there wont be much out of drystock either

squinn2912

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118310629#Comment_118310629

Possibly you’re right about that. There might be an issue where the cows would eat out the ground for you where calves wouldn’t so that cuts out endless topping. Wed have 2 groups of cows/calves, bulling heifers, 2 weanling groups, 1-2 forward store type groups and dry cows. We’re spread over 3 main farms & outfarms so there’d be groups anyhow. I’m a teacher so I be off during the summer anyway and I love going round the stock. When I do go round the stock I don’t really wanna be looking at a load of fresians and I enjoy producing the type of cattle we have. FRom year to year calf to beef might work out better for a specialist for us it might not. I’ve friends who dabbled in it and are back out of it now after outbreaks of all sorts of diseases and games of cat and mouse with tb. Nothing is plain sailing as I say if youre finding calf to beef to be more beneficial to you then good on you, keep at it. I’m not making little of any of your points but I remain unconvinced that it would be better for us. I like to try new things out so I might buy a group of them and see how they go… then again, that would mean another group about the place!!

minerleague

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118310826#Comment_118310826

Are you the drystock farmer quoted in journal that gave 490/acre for 5 year lease on land 😎 by any chance?

trg

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118310459#Comment_118310459

We're going to try that road. Whatever doesn't calve in January gets the road. I'm quite with work in early Spring and we've long winters so plan is to have all calved in January and back in calf in April leaving the shed.

Sell what isn't staying for breeding in September and October then.

Need to be really ruthless with culling and probably be very lucky with getting in calf! Will try AI.

Have a middling outfarm so buy whitehead runners for that in early Spring I think.

trg

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118308056#Comment_118308056

Might be reading this wrong.....is it that you've a feeder for 40 calves? What type and cost? Thought you'd need around the 70 mark for one

squinn2912

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118310973#Comment_118310973

Sounds like a good plan. Is the best thing to be ruthless right away or could you pull back calving in stages over 2 years? In the Month of May I have exams so an odd tough day at school but mostly it’s fairly light and a great big long evening. The idea of trying to take cows in for ai or run them with the bull wouldn’t bother me. We even calve a few in May. People be horrified at that when I say it but those ones eat the butt of silage, calve outside and no issue with bedding. A problem is then that when you’re weaning they are smaller calves but if you have a few of them then theres a pen. I haven’t really giving it the right study but I’m not in a panic to cut them out either. The glut of calving in Feb/March is more anguish!

Hard Knocks

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118311029#Comment_118311029

Agree those late calvers can be fed on very little to maintain them over the winter, then out the door as they calve

squinn2912

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118311271#Comment_118311271

Yea I’ve a neighbour who does the same. All usually seems to be going to plan but he got the sh1te polled out of him on weanlings this year. He be’s grumblin about cattle being dear but there needs to be something for the creatur who did all those aforementioned dastardly tasks!!

Danzy

Part of my reason for getting sheep was because I think the day will come when there will be a lot of lads wanting cattle that are over the year at least and swww7 fb78 all who to rear them to that age and sell on as stores.

Nearly all dairy cross here in North Cork.

Costs are gone crazy for us all but the lad with them under 12 months is doing the heavy lifting cost and work wise.

bogman_bass

the right Angus in a suckler herd can do just as well as most breeds but you have to kill them yourself. You won’t get paid for them as weanlings

Danzy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118311610#Comment_118311610

Got lovely Poly heifers, suckler bred lmx mother for 590 last year in the mart, 285kgs.

Felt bad for the lad selling.

Anto_Meath

I had two cows that repeated this year that will now be calving in May, I normally calf March - April, sell as beef bullocks @ 27 -28 months. Heifers @20 -22 months, usually selling at the highest price when there isn't a glut of cattle out. So to bring these 2 back in line for next year hopefully I put this lad on them https://www.progressivegenetics.ie/product/goulding-man-oh-man he is ment to be a double mussel Angus, the cows a good red lmx so I am interested to see how it turns out.

I sold a 25 month old Angus in the mart last June 640kgs, €1,740 so that's what we should all be aiming for.

Grueller

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118310982#Comment_118310982

No trg. I will be letting off the 40 sucklers and rearing 60-70 calves on a feeder. They will be my own calves from the dairy side.

I have bought a jfc s2 feeder. €10,500 plus vat. The VAT is reclaimable, I am grant approved for a 40% grant not claimed yet reduces it to €6,375. Write the rest off against the high rate tax I pay in off farm employment at 50% and by the time it's done it has cost €3187.50 from my pocket. For the labour saving that is small beer.

squinn2912

I see in the FJ there are plans to create a suckler cow sub in north £140-£160. At the moment only will be available in areas of disadvantaged land but they might bend a bit on that. It would make a big difference.

Who2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118317335#Comment_118317335

Sssssh, there’ll be more rants about why it shouldn’t be given than the money is worth.

[Deleted User]

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118312105#Comment_118312105

That bull has good figures.

The carcass weight score is high. Higher than a lot of continentals

Anto_Meath

There are lads on here that would hate to think there is a twist to be made on sucklers. If you set up right there is not much work with sucklers, if you have compact calving there is no work again until you are ready to wean. Where as I see with the caves I bucket rear there is something to be done with them all the time, they get meal every day for a start. So that doesn't suit everyone either.

squinn2912

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118317867#Comment_118317867

Then there’s disease, wrong ages and they melt with any change. Plus there’s having to stomach looking at them!

whelan2

Plenty of good an Angus stock bulls out there. With good figures . Have a look at Carrick sale last Saturday.