Following on from here
New Munster chat thread folks. warning deserved there. https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=109477571#post109477571
You’re right, was Casey the only player that went out afterwards?
You made it sound like they all travelled together. Zebo, Coombes, Jenkins and Hurley all went out on the Saturday so there were 5 additions.
Edit: just checked and the final squad update included Zebo and Coombes.
Was Casey the only one that went later then?
Nope. Zebo et al flew out on the Saturday before the Argentina game. Casey flew solo on the Wednesday or Thursday
He did bit he left almost immediately.
I think Casey posted something at the time like that Grandpa Simpson thing where he walked in and straight back out
My bad!
He definitely flew out to SA, I think he touched down just as the travel restrictions were being implemented but then he joined camp so was in the same boat as everyone else out there.
Yeah I thought that. They might have only arrived into SA the Sunday morning that they decided they were leaving..
He did go to SA after the main tour, same as Zebo and Coombes I think
He was on the bench for the Argentina game, so don't think he was in SA.
Was casey not in South africa ? If not I'd love to see back line of:
9 Casey
10. Murray
11. Earls
12 DDA
13. Farrell
14. Conway
15. Carberry.
Given the contingent that were away over the Autumn, you'd think we could be reliant on the backs (and the half backs in particular) to have a big day, as we'll have way more experience there.
I think we'll have Murray, Carbery, Conway, Earls and DDA and also Farrell back from injury in the backs along with just Killer, Beirne and POM from the forwards. Possibly forgetting some? Casey too, but you'd imagine Murray will start.
Time for the more expansive approach to shine!
It isnt about players moving after school/LC. Its far more about players quitting/finishing playing entirely. If it was about players moving then the city clubs would have far more players and some clubs even able to field 2 20s sides.. but that isnt the case. I played for 2 clubs at 20s as in my 3rd/4th season playing 20s/21s we just lost a lot of players. The 50:22 is in every grade and has been kept. you wouldnt need to change anything about that. restricting number of subs would put off people not get more people interested. the change to 12 subs and any rotation within that 12 has made games far better than the old way.
Someone posted (I think it was) Thornley's possible XV up on planet rugby forum. Okeke at 8, some guy called John Forde at blindside, Eoin O'Connor alongside Beirne in the second row, Patrick Campbell at 15, and Declan Moore ahead of Scott Buckley at hooker.
Yep. Used to be case the tipp clubs would play the county cup, o connor cup, at end of season even if sides didnt field in league through the season but even that doesnt happen as much any more.
Yeah a few rounds of ranking games and then a few divisions of teams around same level. North Munster u20s league at start of season has often had Nenagh, Ennis occasionally compete and do ok but these sides wouldnt have player depth necessarily to compete in division 1 with all the city clubs and another league even if it only had a game a month(of blitz style games with few clubs in 1 location if necessary) would be better than current set up
I think a lot has to do with players moving after leaving cert. Simply from 18 years old to 20 years old there could be mass migration from a rural area. In my experience my local club barely kept half the players, and picked up a lot of new players purely because they went to college nearby.
What can a rural club do if they have 30 players at 18's and just 15 players by 20's?
I'd imagine a regional team should kick in instead of club team after 18's.
Anyone not playing for a college or a well-stocked club, should be able to join a band of players .
One other thing is the rules could change a bit more to entice more players to play.
Amateur rugby should have a lot less hits in it or people simply won't want to play it.
Bring the tackle height down to below the hips, use the 50:22 and the 22:50 rules, and maybe look at uncontested scrums or maybe just one flanker for the tight side only and none for the loose side (as in 14 players instead of 15 to allow a bit more space). Maybe look at restricting the number of subs to ensure fitter players are rewarded above heavy players.
I gave up playing when I was injured more often than available to play, mostly due to injuries picked up from heavy tackle collisions.
I think the likely starting 15 is reasonably clear with decisions at 15 and the back-row definitely still up for discussion - It's the bench that's a complete unknown as I don't think anyone has any real idea of who if any, of the guys in quarantine are going to make the cut.
Ah yeah official announcement due then, just curious were there any educated guesses from reporters or anything
That's definitely a big issue at U20's
There are 40+ clubs fielding teams at U18 in Munster yet at most you'll have 8 or 10 fielding at U20 a year or two later.
Almost all Junior clubs don't bother with U20's as they quite reasonably feel that they can't compete with a UCC or a Young Munster etc. so they just focus on the few guys coming up that are ready/able to play Junior grade adult rugby immediately and the rest drift away.
If they were able to get close to replicating the U18 Clubs model at U20 with a Cup/Plate/Bowl model it might keep more clubs and players involved a little longer and increase the chances of them sticking with the game.
Im not sure you would. It isnt simply genetics but remember a decade ago Leinster had to run a open call for anyone age 17-23 who was 6'6 or taller..
The focus on schools alone isnt the answer and no i dont think if anyone did pay for a coaching set up to relocate it would have a similar output. Munster have to focus on a lot more than schools rugby. It has to look at changes at all levels be it clubs 20s grade, even the adult grades and how competitions are structured if there is to be improvements at higher levels
Too many variables but one thing you can take for granted they'll be people out there doing calculations on who has Covid based on the team announcement.
Think they have until lunchtime tomorrow to announce , I'd say they'll take every last minute before making the final call.
You'd assume though that the players will be told after training today if they are travelling or not.
I bet if the Collisons decided to pay for the entire St Michael's coaching set-up to relocate to their old school (Castletroy College), you'd start to see Castletroy get similar output to what Michael's have achieved. It's not genetics that have Michaels achieving what they have achieved in the last decade.
If they did, it would be good for the professional side in Munster but arguably terrible for the other aspects of the game (which tbf, I acknowledged earlier, more lads playing any sport is good imo).
Any rumours of potential team at this stage? Or too many variables to guess?
There does need to be greater focus on 20s competitions as well as look at u23 competitions. Connacht have the 4 sides competing in Leinster at 20s - 3 galway and Buccs - but also have been getting other clubs to field 20s sides in blitz/participation days and Munster need to be doing similar. Yes there is the SSI colleges competitions and all the Munster colleges compete in that but more of these should be playing club competitions as well. Like its madness that there isnt a second division at 20s so clubs who wont/cant compete with the city senior clubs be able to play competitive rugby
The drop out rate is a massive problem across the board for Rugby.
If you look at all the players playing SCT or Club U18's this season the sad reality is that less than 25% of them will still be playing Rugby in 3 or 4 years time. And that's the case in all provinces , it's not a Limerick/Munster only problem.
Hard to know how to solve the problem , but certainly there should be a much greater focus on getting more U19/U20/U21 competitions going to try and keep guys involved in the game as they transition to Adulthood.
It really isnt and wouldnt be better for pro rugby or adult rugby/rugby in general as it would detrimentally affect other schools competitiveness and wouldnt necessarily see best for sport as a whole
Munster cant and shouldnt be trying to replicate what Leinster have. Its crazy as the resources each have are completely different. It has to approach things very differently. Both within the clubs youths grades and schools grade rugby.
The problem might be that (odd as it sounds) too many schools play rugby, some to a decent level but none to the level of Michaels (or in truth, PBC or CBC). The talent is spread over 4 or 5 good schools but that leaves no one great school. Coaching is similarly spread.
Limerick would be better off, from a professional development perspective, imo, to have one truly elite school that dragged in all the talent and coached them to a high level. Conversely, that might be bad for the students, since it's better for lads to be playing sports.
It is a combination of factors. Some of the Limerick schools rely far more on teachers to coach teams due to €€€ and that is great but doesnt always mean you have the best coaches. kids in CBC and PBC are possibly better coached but numbers are bigger in both and from experience of the players in these Limerick schools the skills work, decision making is far better now than it was 10 plus years ago.
I dont think the Limerick schools are poorly coached to play rugby. Especially now compared to again a decade ago when these issues of players coming from Limerick to pro level wasnt up for debate. Its as much the rise of players coming from Tipperary, Waterford, Cork beyond the city has lessened the need for so many players coming from Limerick and while more to come from Limerick would be great it isnt as bad as some make it out.
How wold you address this issue within schools rugby and clubs rugby in Limerick then. The drop out rate after age grade rugby is as bad in clubs as schools so the blame cant be attached solely to schools and the coaches in them.
![Photo of [Deleted User]](https://wa.vanillicon.com/v2/ad289898c0c6dda7e667bf900ae26d0c.svg)
![Photo of [Deleted User]](https://w6.vanillicon.com/v2/6e2ea1b10128e121bcaec481a22fed08.svg)