As the title says, this is a new thread for chat about Dun Laoghaire in general without the traffic & transport nonsense.
Enjoy.
Planning permission gone in for 16 terraced houses as well as a large 4 story apartment block with 48 car parking spaces off Tivoli Rd
https://planning.agileapplications.ie/dunlaoghaire/application-details/91512
It'll see an end to this lovely lane that leads up to St. Joseph's School and that it also a very popular cycling / walking route from the HoneyPark / Cualanor area down to Dun Laoghaire town.
https://www.google.com/maps/@53.2879919,-6.1387854,3a,75y,183.4h,87.52t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sP6lkGDNeYO1xyHYQUfAINg!2e0!7i16384!8i8192
All the trees on the lef of the lane would be removed
Not sure, maybe an element of it. They may well keep back a chunk for medium-term corporate lettings too. Sandyford is European HQ for a lot of big multi-nationals that would use very high-end accommodation.
You can earn three or four times the going rate on those deals, so its a great cash cow for anyone in the game.
I like the design, not the usual bland glass box. Build for rent?
Centre of shot there. Thats Leopardstown Road in the lower picture.
The new apartments getting built along Annaville Terrace in Newtownpark Avenue are also progressing very well. The 3rd block of apartments is now getting built right beside Annaville Avenue.
Whereabouts is this?
Yes its been with ABP a few months now. These are a few more images of it.
First I have to give it to Homeland, the schemes they produce are of exceptional quality and finish, they really do cater for the highest of high-end.
However, I don't see this passing muster for more than about 6 storeys, maybe max 7 in the centre of the site. It probably won't be resolved before the SHD provision expires in February.
Fundamentally though its a good scheme, right on excellent public transport corridors and adjacent to a huge employment centre.
How about a third thread devoted to housing?😁
Does the topic of this thread need to go from:
Dun Laoghaire Thread. No traffic, commuting, transport chat.
to:
Dun Laoghaire Thread. No traffic, commuting, transport chat. No solving the housing crisis.
😉
isnt Dun Laoighre in County Dublin (A96) as opposed to Dublin ?
I'm not sure what you mean by that question. Dublin now comprises of four local authority areas. The distinction between Dublin city and county is no longer as valid as it used to be. It is now only a carry over of those areas allocated a postal code i.e. D1; D2 etc. back in the day and those areas that were not!
Lots of apartments in killiney. There 2 big sites on church road.
Lots of apartments going in on shankill ( opposite St.Anne’s, woodbank , fingletons site on the Shanganah road, and on the opposite side )
They could. And if we planned for increased density around train stations (like Dun Laoghaire and every Dart and suburban rail station), more people could walk or cycle there. If we don’t do that and if the train line to Navan ever appears, people will drive to it or not use it because they can’t drive.
Thankfully economics (and a dose of pragmatism in AbP) will save us from more semi-Ds being built near the Dart in Dun Laoghaire, no matter what the NIMBYs want.
They could possibly (and you might want to sit down for this) walk or cycle to the train station in suburban Navan.
What happens when the train gets to Navan? How do people get from there to their houses in suburban Navan? If they drove, where do they park? Will public transport be provided to bring them home? All problems caused by not linking public transport and planning.
Heres whats being proposed for Leopardstown Road, directly opposite the Laura Lynn Centre. Developer has spent tens of millions buying up 10 properties on Leopardstown Road plus the St Joseph's House and Ann Sullivan Centres. Going to have access from Leop Road and Brewery Road, the latter through a very small estate called Silver Pines, totally inappropriate. Access to Leop Road will be left turn only which will just create ratruns through Leop Avenue and Drive.
There are apartment blocks in Killiney and Shankill. Lots of them. Look at the old Killiney Court site. And Shankill is getting several thousand new homes on the Shanganagh-Woodbrook lands.
And in fact, countless big houses in Killiney are either being demolished to be replaced by higher density or having additional housing being built in the grounds. This is the model now.
Dublin 4 has a huge number of apartments and high density new housing continuously coming on stream too. Ailesbury Road might be an exception because so many of the houses are run as embassies and unlikely to be sold on, but the point still stands.
And I've news for you, Dun Laoghaire is actually in Dublin also. Just like any urban village, Rathmines, Stoneybatter, Blanchardstown, all Dublin....
so when we've finished filling Dun Laoghaire with Apartments buildings all along the front, what next? Start building Apartment blocks in Killiney, or Shankhill? thank god these apartment blocks are stopping urban sprawl.
How about rezoning places that are actually in Dublin, like Ailesbury Road, or Sandymount and build apartment blocks there?
People want to live in Dun Laoghaire because it is a nice place to live with premium property prices. This means the property dvelopers can make stupid amounts of profit by cramming as many small apartments on to as small a space as possible. It needs balance. which is why the council has a development plan.
Unfortunately ABP seem to think ignoring this and building developments of 100+ apartments in unsuitable laces, such as Church Road, or Harbour Road is ok.
or build a decent public transport system so that people can live in Navan and work in Dublin.
Dun Laoghaire hasn't been a commuter town since the 1800s...
Its an inner suburb of Dublin, that has Dublin's best public transport system running through the heart of it. Its possible to commute to the heart of Dublin in 20 minutes from it. Its pretty much the definition of "suited to apartment living" as far as urban planning goes.
And yes, building high density apartment blocks in Dublin is literally the number one way to stop urban sprawl. If all we built were 3 bed semi-ds Dublin would sprawl out to Laois to sustain its population. High density apartment blocks prevent this by letting more people live in smaller areas.
You're clearly shouting into the void here anyway with these rants, so I'll stop explaining. But at least now you hopefully know, even if you can't accept it, why almost every single large development moving forwards in the area is apartments. And very much needs to be.
There are really only 3 cordons to be concerned with. Inside the canals, inside the M50 and outside the M50.
Dun Laoghaire is a high demand area for housing and its precisely because its on excellent public transport links to the City Centre that housing will be intensified in it.
Ireland's population is gone from 3 million to over 5 million in less than three decades. We can either have our kids buying their first homes in Athy and Navan forever or we can get with this programme like the rest of the civilised world.
It has its own employment areas and it's close to many employment areas other than the city centre. It also has plenty of amenities that people from outside the area will travel to it for. Perhaps crucially, Dun Laoghaire isn't a town at all any more, it's an area that is part of Dublin city. By your definition almost everywhere in Dublin is a commuter town.
And yes, if you want to live in a large urban area and be very close to rail based public transport, that I think you should be living in an apartment because it makes the most use of scarce land. If you want to live in a house, you can live slightly further away from the train station. I live in a traditional 90s semi-D in suburban Dublin and I'm a 10 minute walk from the Luas. It's a tremendous waste of space! The apartments springing up all around me are far better because they put more people closer to public transport.
If Dun Laoghaire isn't a commuter town, then what is it? It is a town where the majority of people who live there commute each day.
Is the trade off simply that if you want to catch the train to work, you have to live in an apartment?
Dun Laoghaire is part of Dublin. It's not and hasn't been a commuter town in a very long time. Balbriggan, Maynooth and Bray (just about) are commuter towns. And the parts of those towns near higher quality public transport should be higher density apartment blocks or the people living there will have to drive which makes them more likely to drive to Dublin anyway.
so building huge apartment blocks in the towns and villages around Dublin is being done to actually prevent Urban sprawl?
I totally understand building apartment buildings all over the centre of Dublin and a certain amount in the surrounding areas. What i object to is the assumption that because somewhere is on the Dart, we should build apartments there.
Dun Laoghaire is a commuter town. Commuter town s should be where people live that are happy to trade off a bot of a longer commute with a larger living space. Not somewhere people are forced to move to and live in apartments because they have been priced out of living in the place they want to commute to.
Ireland as a whole is sparsely populated because comparatively nobody lives in Mayo or Kerry or Donegal or similar counties with large amounts of land but very few humans. Nobody is suggesting people need move into apartments in rural areas where land is abundantly available.
Dublin, and more specifically for this thread Dun Laoghaire, are the issue. Cities are where people live in apartments in every other first world country. But currently under 8% of our Irish urban population lives in apartments, versus anywhere from 40-65% in other similar European cities.
Thats completely unsustainable for any number of reasons - land usage/population density, environmental concerns, urban sprawl, cost of living, continuing population growth..etc. Which is why its going to have to change rapidly.
If you're building new apartments in Dublin; of course people can be happy to hear that some guarantees will come from their landlords that their monthly rent can be reduced once they are built & finished.
But how much can the rent be reduced for privately built apartments based within Dun Laoghaire-Rathdown when you're trying to compare them to other apartment buildings that are already built or being proposed in other parts of Dublin?
If the big problem in this country along with other counties is the cost of living; would you think that building newer apartments will have much of an effect in reducing their prices for people who want to move into them?
We had some statistics out recently that the number of rented housing units in the private market around was at an all time low. That bit of news tells me that if building newer apartment blocks was one of the bigger answers in the reducing the burden of high rent prices. Property Developers would need to build a much bigger substantial amount of them to make the rental prices go down substantially around the country for the prices to be at a decent sustainable level.
And politicians around the country need to give these developers an actual chance to actually get them built in their own constituency. There tens of thousands of people out there who do need to get something built so they can no longer live with their own parents house's any longer.
the most sparsely populated country in europe needs to shift 20-40% of its population in to apartments.
think about that for one minute.
You've seen rents rise because theres a shortage of all accommodation in Dublin, not specifically three bedroom houses.
The reality that Dublin's problem is a lack of apartments, not 3bed semi-d houses, is not some property developer bullshit. Its completely academically accepted, statistically proven, fact.
Ireland has the lowest % of its population in Europe living in apartments. This is completely and utterly unsustainable, and a disastrous misuse of our urban space:
Moving forwards we're going to need to shift 20%-40 of the population into living in apartments in urban areas, who're not currently doing so.
I have seen rents in my area go from €1500 per month to €3500 per month over the past five years, because there is a shortage of three bedroom houses for families to live in.
You can give some property developer "we must build more flats, make them smaller and build them higher" bullshit all you like, but that is the reality.
It is just pure greed.
No. Again, because theres still less demand overall for the 3bed houses. Because they're no longer full of young people in their 20s and 30s in house shares.
Dun Laoghaire has anywhere from 1/2 to 1/3rd the amount of apartments in the apartments:houses ratio it should have, according to demographics and demand. The statistics are very clear that the "mix" has already got far too many houses, using up far too much space, and far too few apartments.
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