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Is Ireland Racist?

I would say that Ireland is doing very well in relative terms to other countries especially considering the massive demographic shift we have seen in the last 20 years or so. Outliers like Gemma O Doherty and her handful of followers are to be expected but Irish people in general seem to be accepting of all people on first impression no matter colour/creed until they have a reason not to which is something to be admired.

There are of course those with a particular agenda on twitter and the like who would have you believe that we are basically like the Antebellum South but these are usually young/immature people whose views are the result of saturating themselves in American media.

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The Quintessence Model

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118287778#Comment_118287778

I know, sure I answered did I not.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118287790#Comment_118287790

Just about yeah. Thanks

The Quintessence Model

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118287800#Comment_118287800

You are welcome. Enjoy your night pal. I myself am off to sleep.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118287643#Comment_118287643

That really doesn't mean much though. I've traveled extensively, and I could probably assign many of my bad or lukewarm experiences to racism if I wanted to. In some cases, they definitely were related to racism, but others could been simply that I was in the wrong place at the wrong time. Or some people have really stupid mindsets when it comes to insults and agro.

The point being that experiencing racism in a country, doesn't make that nation (and everyone who lives there) racist. Individuals are racist. Some groups are intentionally racist.. but the idea that you can call an entire country racist is nuts...

The simple truth is that everyone can and will experience some racism firsthand... even in their own country. There's plenty of Black people who are racist towards other Black people (Africa is extremely tribal after all). Plenty of white people who project guilt over being white. TBH every time I hear a White person going on about white privilege, I know that they're being racist towards their own ethnic group. But it still comes down to individual or mob behavior.

I already mentioned earlier in the thread a country can't be racist. That some individuals are racist. But id like to try and understand the extent of it here. And its through peoples stories that we might get an idea of that. And yes some will interpret things as racist such as being overlooked for a job where they just weren't the best candidate.

On the face of it i don't think we are a particularly racist country. But i am a white Irish man who has never experienced any sort of prejudice in this country. So i couldn't speak for the experiences of an African living here or a Pakistani. I wouldn't be an easy undertaking to get an accurate picture as someone mentioned earlier the people most likely to ring Joe Duffy about racism would be people who have had bad experiences.

I can only speak for my own experiences and what I've observed. I have Asian family and friends of various ethnic backgrounds.

Structurally, no. I think contemporary Ireland makes a strong effort to ensure racism doesn't happen and by and large in officialdom, employment and education it seems to be fairly good.

In day to day life, my Asian family members haven't encountered any issues and have had very good and open career opportunities and have been quite well embraced.

Where things start to have issues here is where many of us have issues - thuggush abuse by what I can only describe "roaming street bullies". I've heard of and seen several incidents of really nasty racial abuse from these "characters" but, it also has to be said that they seem to also be willing to throw any other kind of abuse too and are often just vicious to absolutely everyone.

I've encountered occasional and really quite shocking racism from some older folks (in Dublin). Most of it is just sheer ignorance but some of it really couldn't be explained away by that and it was as downright nasty in reference to "mixed marriages" and expression of faux concern for mixed race children, who happen to be my neices and nephews.

I am not sure where those attitudes came from, but they were no different to what you'd see in Britain from a certain type either.

I don't think we have anything like the race relations issues the US has and we don't share its history. I think it's also something we need to avoid importing.

I also think you have to be a little careful not to assume aspects of online social media racism is reflected in the real world. It can be extremely vicious, all about pile ons and bubbles and it often isn't defined by geography. I know I've encountered abuse myself from weirdos online.

Irishness is very much a state of mind and I think for most of us it's also something that is capable of embracing and bringing people into the fold and into the big, broad Irish family. I think that's something we should feel proud of and confident about.

We have a hugely positive and outward looking national identity that isn't about the fragile ego of ethnic nationalism and anyone who tries to push it into being about bloodlines needs to be told where to go.

The other area we fall down badly on is definitely around our relationship with our own traveling community. There are social problems and, like in most ethnic groups that have suffered from social and economic exclusion, you'll find that is both the root cause and the driver of a vicious cycle of exclusion, feeding into lack of opportunity and into social problems which, reinforce prejudice, which causes more exclusion and the cycle goes on and on and on ...

It takes a big effort to break that cycle and I think we are only barely beginning to do so. It will take bridges to be built, trust to be built and community to connect, but I would say that at least we are recognising it is a problem and we are tackling it.

Overall I think ireland has racists and racism issues. They're not American problems nor are they a byproduct of imperialism superiority complexes and we need to identify and solve our own unique issues.

However, by and large I don't think Ireland is particularly racist. It's also self aware enough as a society to identify and tackle these issues and not so arrogant as to think it's perfect. We do genuinely strive to be a decent society. That's probably the main thing that will ensure that we have a good outcome.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118278028#Comment_118278028

Yeah, the Irish abroad tend to stick together.

And in places like the US they are definitely racist, it goes back generations and exhibits itself in recently arrived Irish immigrants to.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118283518#Comment_118283518

that's because you've obviously never looked, that's how people usually get shot by cops, abbylara is one to look up.

Racism is ignorance and we have become a very well educated country so that we generally make other nationalities very welcome and they appreciate that. Those who don’t interact generally with people and who contribute negatively to society are the racists in Ireland. They don’t work and never have and they rear families who follow the same route through life.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118288271#Comment_118288271

The other area we fall down badly on is definitely around our relationship with our own traveling community. There are social problems and, like in most ethnic groups that have suffered from social and economic exclusion, you'll find that is both the root cause and the driver of a vicious cycle of exclusion, feeding into lack of opportunity and into social problems which, reinforce prejudice, which causes more exclusion and the cycle goes on and on and on ...

The "cycle" with the Travellers exists because their culture is completely incompatible with a modern society. It's a primitive culture that encourages abuse of all kinds, and invariably leads to them becoming outsiders. Stop protecting that culture, and the cycle will end with Travellers becoming part of mainstream society, because there would be no more excuses for behaviors that are unacceptable to us. ie, the abuse and the focus on violence.

The cycle goes on and on, because they're encouraged through government supports to maintain that culture. The racism directed towards Travellers exists because their behavior is offensive to many Irish people. It's not complicated, and it's not hard to understand.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118287778#Comment_118287778

I agree, but if you read the covert racism in this thread, it's hardly a safe space, and says all we need to know about racism in Ireland in my opinion.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118289029#Comment_118289029

Covert racism... lolz.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118288956#Comment_118288956

And this is racism right here in print.

It's the travelers fault for being different.

If the traveler wasn't going around the place being a traveler then he would be fine.

Don't get me wrong, I prejudge travelers everyday of the week so I am guilty of this racism also, but we cannot go around the place claiming that we are not racist, or not prejudicial or anything without acknowledging the way we look at travelers.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118288956#Comment_118288956

'The racism directed towards Travellers exists because their behavior is offensive to many Irish people. '

this line alone is one of the more racist things I've seen posted. But people will ignore that and thank this post because that is how we think. It's acceptable to be racist towards travellers. Although we look at disgust at other countries who discriminate against their own indigenous peoples.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118289225#Comment_118289225

Just like the invisible unicorn in my living room. I can assure you that it's there but if you want me to back that up with proof, then I won't be able to do it, conveniently enough.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118288730#Comment_118288730

In theory, this statement should hold true. However, my real life experience tells me otherwise.

Two of the most legitimately racist people I know are highly intellectually able and very successful in terms of career and finances. The first person is somebody I knew when I lived abroad. He was an amazing engineer and now runs this own consultancy. The second is an Irish guy, earns a six-figure salary, lives in a lovely part of Dublin, and is happily married with three children. Both these guys are in their 30s.

It's very easy to generalize that racism predominates amongst particular socio-economic cohorts. The fact of the matter is that people from all kinds of backgrounds are racist / non-racist / totally indifferent. The only true differentiator is that those with higher levels of education, are typically smart enough to obfuscate their true feelings.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118289260#Comment_118289260

There's nothing racist in that post. I didn't say that it was the Travellers fault for being different. You did by altering the narrative.

Actually, if you read the post another way, It's our fault for maintaining/supporting a culture that should have been allowed to die out. That's what usually happens to unsuccessful cultures which are unsuitable for the times we live in. They die out (the culture, not the people).

Did I say that people weren't racist towards Travellers? Nope. Did I say there wasn't prejudice extended to Travellers? Nope.

I simply don't agree with enabling a culture that is so badly unsuited to modern society, and it is a culture that encourages all manner of abuse to the people within that cultural group.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118289570#Comment_118289570

I simply don't agree with enabling a culture that is so badly unsuited to modern society, and it is a culture that encourages all manner of abuse to the people within that cultural group.

You could argue the same about Islam, i.e that it's badly suited to modern society.

What should we be doing about that ?

I'd say you should leave the shovel down now for your own good.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118289378#Comment_118289378

They aren't even a separate race so the whole thing is ridiculous. They are a culture that mostly lives off crime and state benefits that actively decide to not educate themselves and live in a way that any other group wouldn't be allowed to. People dislike them because a massive amount of them engage in behaviour that shouldn't be acceptable in a modern society. I suppose hatchet fights are funerals, beating the crap out of each other, terrible treatment of animals, crime etc. should all be celebrated as virtues of their 'race'.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118289733#Comment_118289733

As I said, it's entirely acceptable when we talk about our own.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118289570#Comment_118289570

You do this so often that you cannot even see it yourself.

You argue (oh very eloquently) against certain cultures, because you don't think they are suited to modern life, in your opinion, or in your opinion of what wider society believes.

While there are plenty of travellers that may reflect your idea of their culture, there are many that do not. Like so many cultures you believe should die out.

Perhaps you should make up a list, of all the cultures in the world that you believe should be allowed to exist and those that you believe should die?

In a word - Yes. What is it that they say - the Irish were great to send money to the "black babies" in Africa but not so happy when those self-same people turned up to live here.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118289744#Comment_118289744

If pointing out actual facts is somehow making you feel like you have a point then run with it. These are some of the reasons why people don't hold exactly positive opinions of travellers. If they stopped doing a lot of this - and they could if they wanted, then a lot of people's opinions would change.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118289878#Comment_118289878

This post in itself is really racist, if you can't see that then there's no hope for you. Do you believe all black people and all irish people or all asian people are the same aswell ?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118275837#Comment_118275837

Centuries you say.

So it was the Brits who were at it seeing as we are only independent for 100 years.

Yeah for a couple of decades the travellers had it hard nobody denies that but thats not the case for years now, councils bend over backwards to suport them and the houses that are built are top notch with the best of materials put into them.

But of course what your post doesn't say is quite a few of them have no respect for the houses they are supplied with and the area is left like a bomb site which the council has to clean up.

I won't go into how many are engaged in criminality because that might blow your mind altogether.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118289924#Comment_118289924

Nothing is going to blow my mind.

I look down on, and am as suspicious of the traveler as any other "settled" person.

But I'm not going to claim that it's not racism or prejudice, it absolutely is.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118289951#Comment_118289951

Well maybe when they make a real effort to get their own community in order things might start to change.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118289674#Comment_118289674

Indeed I could argue the same about Islam... it still wouldn't make the argument, or opinion racist. I'd need to express a lot more than that to be racist.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118289029#Comment_118289029

So much racism you had to lie to evidence your point.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118289922#Comment_118289922

BLM seem to. Do you support them?