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What does the future hold for Donald Trump? - threadbans in OP

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,409 ✭✭✭✭salmocab


    It would remind me of the scene in blackadder when Melchett describes the German spies and the brave English spies.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,223 ✭✭✭✭briany


    Why have you chosen to believe Trump, a proven liar, without any evidence?

    Because Trump is (or at least proclaims to be) pro-gun, anti-abortion, said he'd keep the Mexicans out (and the Muslims), would get that steel mill or coal mine in that rust belt town back to work, barely denounces crazy conspiracy theories, openly fans the flames of far-right paranoia, panders to evangelicals, and is rude, loud and crass. Best of all, he really, really, really upsets American liberals. He is what his supporters want. He's not a unifier. He's a big 'f*ck you'. He's all the things a disturbingly large proportion of American voters have apparently been wanting to say for a long time, but have been kind of pussyfooting around, but here it is now in clear language. He is a statement, in bloated man-shaped form, that one side is rapidly losing interest in abiding by political norms. He's a political wrecking ball that's still doing damage. Easy to see why his supporters love him so. There will never be a leader who is a more succinct representation.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,933 ✭✭✭Tippex


    Well I would be surprised if there weren’t numerous reports especially considering previous slapdown for using terms like sleepy joe



  • Registered Users Posts: 832 ✭✭✭blackwave


    Just on your last point so if the GOP do play by the rules. What should they do and also what should their ultimate goal be? Is it a one party system, a trump dictatorship or what did you envision it being?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,145 ✭✭✭TheIrishGrover


    Unfortunately I have to agree with much if this. I spent quite a bit of time in late 90s/early-to-mid 2000s in the mid west with work. Months at a time. And I really liked it. The people were friendly, at least initially. Optimistic, at least initially.. But there was always an undercurrent. Remember us talking to someone in a bar (small town, large group of Irish people. Drew attention. People were curious. No problem). Talking to a guy. Never met him before. Before judging our potential reaction, he goes " Man, you guys have it great there. No snow and no f*cking n*ggers". I mean, what do you say to that? Since then, the US is not the super power it one was.

    Its racial problems and yearning for some mythical 50s era when all was right with the world (women in the kitchen, N*ggers in the slums and homosexuals non-existant). The political embracing of racists/white supremacists, the demonisation of science, has meant they no longer are the moral superpower they once were. (If ever. If anyone could be considered a moral superpower. But certainly this was the image they projected to the world in the face of communism)


    They are no longer the military or financial superpower they once were. Trump was right about one thing. The world is laughing at the US. But not because of the democrats. We are laughing at a nation that could select him. We are laughing at a modern country that teaches Adam and Eve as science as apposed to religion. We are laughing at how the politicians will bite off their nose to spite their face. . Would prefer to let a proposition that would help millions, die, if it meant working with the other party. We are NOT laughing as they send coal representatives to environmental summits as their environmental experts. We are NOT laughing as they produce more waste per head of population than the next four countries combined. We are NOT laughing as every few weeks there is another mass murderer event while their politicians take bribes from gun manufacturers/lobbyists. We are laughing as trump mangles the English language while telling people that he is a genius and suggesting that people inject bleach and/or swallow light bulbs. We are laughing as he claims to be responsible for vaccines that were developed by multi national corporations by foreign teams outside of the US. We are laughing as a politician calls trump one of the greatest political minds and the greatest orator ever..... With a straight face. We are NOT laughing when we watch people try to overthrow the election process by attacking government building live on TV. We are not laughing as we watch (months before elections) as the US (supposedly the bastion of democracy) attempts to rig election by attempting to strip the postal service (causing deaths) to stop mail in votes. MONTHS before elections. We are NOT laughing when we see the pride in the republicans as they proudly try (and fail) to strip people of what the rest of the world would consider a human right: health care.

    So they are folding in upon themselves. Isolating themselves from the world. Fearful of the world and themselves.

    So it turns on its allies. Isolated itself and then turns on itself. Of course it is still massively powerful but this fear and self doubt is now visible to all....... Trump is not the cause..... But he is the poster boy and the loudest voice. And now the world knows...... And so does the US.


    Edit: Fixed some autocorrect typos

    Post edited by TheIrishGrover on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,085 ✭✭✭relax carry on


    I think you really should be in the conspiracy theory forum at this stage. It's pathetic.



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,118 Mod ✭✭✭✭robinph


    First link is people upset that eligible voters are being allowed to vote, so think we can safely ignore that as having any valid argument in a democracy.


    Last link seems to be someone who worked for a GOP candidate being involved in creating a fake video showing votes being altered for the Democrat candidate so that the GOP candidate could claim election fraud.

    https://www.expressnews.com/news/local/article/San-Antonio-woman-accused-of-election-fraud-gave-15994192.php



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,654 ✭✭✭✭extra gravy


    Hard to believe that the country is salvageable when you see shït like this.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,126 ✭✭✭✭everlast75


    And they said it was the Democrats who wanted to get rid of Christmas...



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  • Registered Users Posts: 857 ✭✭✭PintOfView


    It's interesting to see a Trump supporter, and how anything Trump does can be rationalised. It seems more like a brainwashed cult, or Trump religion, than anything else, and it's certainly not democracy. It's a bit ironic how Trump, and his like, call the democrats 'communist' (thought he obviously doesn't have a clue what communism is), when his brand of anti-democracy is closer to a one party communist system, and where the actual election outcome doesn't count, and the only thing that does count is that he says he won. The man doesn't seem to have a shred of decency, and is clearly delusional, and many of his followers have either followed him into delusion or are so biased that they allow themselves to support his nonsense while still possibly trying to hold decent views on other things (though I'd wonder about that)!

    All in all this MAGA stuff is backfiring as far as I can see. What example to any other country in the world is the US holding up? With a good percentage of one of the two main parties believing that the election was 'stolen' and acting on it, with guns everywhere against an imaginary enemy, with religious people expressing views and bigotry that have no place in any religion, with the absolute car crash of a response to Covid that made US excess deaths way above most developed countries in the world. How can any US citizen point to China, or most anywhere else, and somehow claim the moral high ground, despite countries like China not having a system you would envy? Makes me appreciate living in Ireland / Europe.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,254 ✭✭✭Billy Mays


    Agreed

    Why the f*ck are kids from Colorado wearing Packers and Raiders gear???



  • Moderators, Politics Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 16,112 Mod ✭✭✭✭Quin_Dub


    This infatuation with guns is something I will never understand.

    Not so much the owning of the gun - I at least can understand (even if I don't agree for the most part) the desire or even necessity to own a gun , but stuff like this glorifying the guns and using kids to help is just beyond comprehension for me.

    It's infantile and pathetic , it really is.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,424 ✭✭✭notobtuse


    Why does it not surprise me you somehow think Manifort is in prison for being a Russian spy rather than tax evasion.

    You can ignorantly accuse me of "whataboutism," but what it really is involves identifying similar scenarios in order to see if it holds up when the shoe is on the other foot!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,754 ✭✭✭✭Leroy42


    I don't think he is a Russian spy, or is in prison for being one, but just as you constantly claim that you have answered all questions before I am not going to rehash all the arguments that have been provided for you, and all other Trump supporters, many times on here. That was after repeated denials that Manifort had ever done anything wrong, a claim that the evil MSM were simply out to get him, that justice would prevail yadda yadda.

    What Manifort clearly shows is A) Trump will lie, B) Trump has plenty of dodgy friends C) Trump had people around him that were compromised. We also know that Trump brought in his own DoJ head to cut off the investigation, released a false summary of the investigation, refused to take part in the investigation, attempted to besmirch those undertaking the investigation.


    Ukraine should have been the final name in the coffin for your support, but as usual everything is glossed over or waved away, and some made up conspriracy about Deepstate or similar is made to try to ignore the blatantly obvious. I mean, Trump said himself that he would gladly accept foreign help to win an election



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,424 ✭✭✭notobtuse


    It's the same here. Yeah, double standards are a drag. Don't you know I have to say things like 'IMO,', 'I believe,' 'I think,' 'apparently,' 'seemingly' et al, otherwise I get a warning for presenting opinion as fact? It's laborious being on the Most Wanted List and not just being one of the gang... allowed to say anything that comes to mind. But hey, it keeps me out of jail.

    You can ignorantly accuse me of "whataboutism," but what it really is involves identifying similar scenarios in order to see if it holds up when the shoe is on the other foot!



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  • Registered Users Posts: 5,424 ✭✭✭notobtuse


    Republicans should learn from the Democrats that in order to get their agenda though they need to take a win at any cost attitude, and the hell with anything and everything else. In US politics for the last two decades it seems good guys finish last. Just look at the Russia, Russia, Russia hoax nonsense, that democrats knew from the start was total bullcrap and even invented by themselves, pushed for 4+ years and used as the basis for what appears to a soft coup against Trump and impeachment. Would you really fault the GOP if they begin to play by the Democrat's rules?

    You can ignorantly accuse me of "whataboutism," but what it really is involves identifying similar scenarios in order to see if it holds up when the shoe is on the other foot!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,754 ✭✭✭✭Leroy42


    Yeah, you are a real bad ass alright!!! Jebus wept. You haven't any logical arguments. Even when you try to make a legitimate point it falls apart as it is clear that that you only hold others to that particular standard. Like all the previous Trump supporters that have come and gone on this thread, resorted to the fall back of 'everyone is against me, it all biased against me'. Exactly the same as Trump.

    No evidence of election fraud, no evidence of deep state, no evidence of closed media. Trump was in power for 4 years, and yet according to you, sat by whilst the democracy he claims to love and cherish was corrupted. And what has he done about it?

    Has he stood on a platform of electoral reform? Had he initiated cross party working groups to propose a better, more equal, more secure voting process for the future? Has he traveled across the country to argue about the need to reform the electoral college, to bring voting systems in line with 21st technology like absentism voting?

    No, he is simply crying that he was robbed, that he wants the rules changed to suit him? That it isn't fair what happened to him.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,717 ✭✭✭✭duploelabs


    There was proven influence of Russian in the election of both '16 and '20, do you dispute the finding of the intelligence agency reports @notobtuse and if so, please show us your contradictory evidence



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,118 Mod ✭✭✭✭robinph


    Russian influence on the elections was not a hoax. You are just deliberately misunderstanding the situation and what it was that was actually involved.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,382 ✭✭✭Patrick2010


    Anyone see the C4 documentary on Qanon last night?. Scary to see how far down the rabbit hole so many Americans are. Michael Flynn and Roger Stone are 2 dangerous guys. Flynn when challenged on Qanon just kept asking if the presenter supported paedophiles.

    On the January 6th commission they've had one public meeting all year. Steve Bannon was charged with contempt but managed to put off any trial for 7 months. Mark Meadows has told them to f off off, https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/dec/07/mark-meadows-withdraws-cooperation-capitol-attack-investigation. They've avoided going after the man who sent the mob to the Capitol because they seem to be so afraid of Trump.

    Realistically nothing will happen and all the people they want to charge will just drag out the process as long as they can until the mid terms or everyone just realises the GOP will veto the whole thing.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 5,424 ✭✭✭notobtuse



    I never said Manifort never did anything wrong. It's you and those like you that keep insinuating Manifort's prior discovered crimes (which Trump was most probably unaware of) had anything to do with the unscrupulous spying that was performed by the FBI, using deception for the FISA warrant on the Trump campaign, and therefore justifying it.

    You can ignorantly accuse me of "whataboutism," but what it really is involves identifying similar scenarios in order to see if it holds up when the shoe is on the other foot!



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,424 ✭✭✭notobtuse


    There has been Russian influence on elections for decades, and it is never aimed at only one party. Should the FBI have meticulously investigated Hillary Clinton's campaign and everyone involved with it in addition to Trump's, and even Joe Biden's, because we all know there is Russian influence involved?

    You can ignorantly accuse me of "whataboutism," but what it really is involves identifying similar scenarios in order to see if it holds up when the shoe is on the other foot!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,513 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    how do you know this if it hasn't been investigated?



  • Moderators, Politics Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 16,112 Mod ✭✭✭✭Quin_Dub


    And did those campaigns obstruct justice at any stage?

    Despite all the "Russia Hoax" rhetoric , the ONLY reason Trump wasn't prosecuted was because he was President.

    He even admitted to it again over the week-end in an Interview with Mark Levin on Fox where he clearly stated that he fired Comey to protect himself from investigation and prosecution, replete with his usual tripe about how "many people are saying"

    If I didn’t fire Comey, they were looking to take down the president of the United States, Trump said after griping about the Deep State. “Some people said ‘he made a mistake when he fired Comey.’ Now those same people say it’s one of the most incredible, instinctual moves they’ve ever seen. … I don’t think I could have survived if I didn’t fire him. It was like a hornet’s nest.”

    Whether he was guilty or innocent of the crimes being investigated , that is textbook obstruction of justice and abuse of power.



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,118 Mod ✭✭✭✭robinph


    Wasn't there statements from the FBI about Clinton just before the 2016 election, and Trump had 4 years to launch all the investigations he wanted. Did they turn anything up?


    The seperate one into Russia and the Trump campaign did turn up results.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,424 ✭✭✭notobtuse



    What... do you think American's walk around touting guns like it's the old wild west? Yeah, the mainstream media likes glorify those rare occurrences when they see them in order to make you think that is the case... it sells newspapers, as the old saying goes. Once in the last 5 years I saw one guy in a home improvement center with a holstered pistol on his belt. And in my state open carry is allowed. I think you've said you have been to America. How many Americans have you seen walking around inn public openly carrying guns? Come on... You're better than that!


    It's a Right here in America, that is not abused by I'd wager 99.99% of the population... and one Trump supports, as does the majority of Americans.

    You can ignorantly accuse me of "whataboutism," but what it really is involves identifying similar scenarios in order to see if it holds up when the shoe is on the other foot!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,126 ✭✭✭✭everlast75


    Investigation in trump finds assistance from russia which trump welcomed and benefited from - "RUSSIAN HOAX"

    No screed of proof whatsoever that anything similar was done by Clinton - "I'M SURE RUSSIA HELPED HER"

    Ffs - utter nonsense.



  • Moderators, Politics Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 16,112 Mod ✭✭✭✭Quin_Dub


    Of course not - I'm talking specifically about these kinds of Social Media posts and particularly these ones from GOP Politicians.

    I've spent a significant amount of time in Texas over the last 25 years and personally know dozens of gun owners (I've even gone target shooting with them several times) and all are responsible owners etc.

    In terms of "open carry" , In that time , I've only ever seen one person carrying a weapon in public - Frankly , he looked ridiculous with a large pistol in a holster tucked into the side of his (very short) shorts while he collected take-out steak and fries at an upscale suburban Restaurant.

    The point I'm making is about this objectification of guns by the GOP and others on the right.

    This week you have had Boebert and Massie with their "Family with Weapons" Christmas cards and there have been many other to do similar things in previous years.

    You also have various GOP candidates using guns in campaign ads as they tell potential voters how they plan to "take out" various policies/people etc. if they get elected.

    Like I said , I can totally understand the arguments for gun ownership in a lot of circumstances - certainly if living in rural areas, there are lots of things big enough to serious injure you or worse, so totally get that. I can also understand (but not agree with) the whole "home defense" viewpoint.

    But what I find utterly bizarre is this specific kind of behaviour - It's not certainly main-stream activity but does seem to be "acceptable" to the target audience.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,145 ✭✭✭TheIrishGrover


    Rare..... in 2019 38,355 gun related deaths.....

    Twice the population of the town I grew up in. In one year alone.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,424 ✭✭✭notobtuse



    That was a very narrow investigation, primarily regarding her private email containing classified government emails to another private email account of her assistant, Huma Abedin. And the FBI allowed her to delete as many emails as she wanted to ahead of time. Also, the FBI allowed her to use her own people to investigate her bathroom server. Can you imagine if Trump in the investigation said. Yeah, FBI I'll give you my emails AFTER I've had time to delete anything I wanted. And if you want to investigate my campaign server, you MUST use the company I pick to do the the inquiry. The FBI investigation into Hillary Clinton was a farce as far as I'm concerned. Plus the FBI still found Classified and Top Secret emails on private email accounts... against the law, and nothing was done to her. So spare me the FBI investigated Clinton... it was laughable.

    You can ignorantly accuse me of "whataboutism," but what it really is involves identifying similar scenarios in order to see if it holds up when the shoe is on the other foot!



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  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 47,335 CMod ✭✭✭✭Black Swan


    Indeed. Population parameters, sample size, confidence interval, significance level, sampling method, conceptual model, operational definitions, limitations, and recommendations for future research would be useful. They should be available sometime in a scholarly peer reviewed journal, as publish or perish is the rule in academia.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,424 ✭✭✭notobtuse


    Sorry, I'd like to respond, but I'm not allowed to comment unless it's Trump related.

    You can ignorantly accuse me of "whataboutism," but what it really is involves identifying similar scenarios in order to see if it holds up when the shoe is on the other foot!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,513 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    you were quite happy to post about guns an hour ago. strange that.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,145 ✭✭✭TheIrishGrover


    Pointless.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 47,335 CMod ✭✭✭✭Black Swan


    Personally and anecdotally, I am glad that we occasionally have a POV post that exemplifies Trumpism from across the pond. Derived from obvious talking points promulgated by American Republican politically far right news media sources like Fox & Friends, Breitbart News, and from Trump’s mouth, or Trump’s failed attempts to circumvent his Twitter 6 January congressional insurrection ban.

    We currently have a thread in our Philosophy forum that discusses Orwellian 1984 doublethink. Many examples can be had from past (and future 2024) Trumpism POVs like the continuous fake news label by Trump’s followers, that would be useful also in our Philosophy forum Doublethink thread. Fake news being applied to anything that conflicts with the Republican talking points, or Trump’s Big Lie conspiracy theory 2024 presidential election platform.

    Such examples of doublethink used by Trump followers, as well as American Republican far right posters, allow us to examine anecdotally their thinking, in contrast to ours. Especially when they claim election frauds rejected by their own Republican US Attorney General William Barr, rejected by over 60 court adjudications, and rejected by the recent Arizona Republican paid Cyber Ninjas election audit.

    Such far right posts, ironically using the word right, a doublethink expression in itself, exemplifies an alternative universe to the one we think we live in. Reminds me of Trump’s Kellyanne Conway “alternative facts” expression, when she substituted pseudo evidence to replace evidence that rejected Trump’s positions.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,424 ✭✭✭notobtuse


    Thanks I think, Black Swan. But you need to be corrected as you assume too much and quite incorrectly for that matter. I don't watch Fox News (except on election days, and then I keep switching between FNC and MSNBC), or Breitbart News, or even listen to Trump. I get the vast majority of my news about Trump and the Right from Realclearpolitics.com, allsides.com, 2 conservative news entities, and 2 liberal news entities. I make my decisions and opinions after balancing out what I read from both sides and I enjoy reading how both sides report so differently on current affairs. I dunno... maybe I'm just overeducated and too in tune with all that is going on politically.


    An aside... I've recently watched the movies Children of Men, and Snowpiercer. Excellent representations of Orwellian societies. Here is a question for your group. Liberal run urban cities are about the closest thing to Orwellian structure there is here, yet they are almost all hellholes for all but the affluent and about as far from Utopia as you can get here. Why is that?

    You can ignorantly accuse me of "whataboutism," but what it really is involves identifying similar scenarios in order to see if it holds up when the shoe is on the other foot!



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators, Regional East Moderators, Regional Midlands Moderators, Regional Midwest Moderators, Regional Abroad Moderators, Regional North Mods, Regional West Moderators, Regional South East Moderators, Regional North East Moderators, Regional North West Moderators, Regional South Moderators Posts: 9,300 CMod ✭✭✭✭Fathom


    Nothing unusual here. There have been many historical precedents in America under both Democrat and Republican administrations. Some infamous. Crime boss Al Capone was too clever to be convicted of murder by the US Justice Department, or other mob-based serious crimes. On October 18, 1931 he had been tried and convicted of tax evasion. Sentenced to eleven years in federal prison, fined $50,000 and charged $7,692 for court costs, in addition to $215,000 plus interest due on back taxes. His 6 month contempt of court sentence was served concurrently. Several of former President Donald Trump's inner circle have been charged, some convicted, of contempt of court and/or tax evasion. Many of their names already mentioned in this thread. They were clever too, in regards to a lot they were doing, but not clever enough to avoid being charged for some of the crimes that were alleged and/or did commit.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,409 ✭✭✭✭salmocab


    I’m over educated and too in tune. There you have it I know better than you, no wonder he’s stuck down Trumps rabbit hole.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,424 ✭✭✭notobtuse


    Amazing... so you support going after Trump so you can get as many of his allies as possible and lock them up for anything that surfaces from their past, or make things up to get them like in Flynn's case and Stone's. Government agencies pick targets they don't like, throw darts, and see what sticks? Man, you would have loved 1930's Germany.

    You can ignorantly accuse me of "whataboutism," but what it really is involves identifying similar scenarios in order to see if it holds up when the shoe is on the other foot!



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  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators, Regional East Moderators, Regional Midlands Moderators, Regional Midwest Moderators, Regional Abroad Moderators, Regional North Mods, Regional West Moderators, Regional South East Moderators, Regional North East Moderators, Regional North West Moderators, Regional South Moderators Posts: 9,300 CMod ✭✭✭✭Fathom


    Do you believe that US presidents are above the law? That they should not be investigated, along with those that advise them and implement their policies? That presidents should be allowed to use executive privilege to hide their behaviors in office, or to attempt to cover them up to avoid prosecution? Remember Watergate? Once again. Nothing unusual here. Typical investigative and criminal prosecution procedures (under both Democrat and Republican administrations), applied to clever defendants. Not hidden, either. Made public by Watergate congressional hearings. Like the typical investigative procedures used against clever defendants (Al Capone), they started with investigating, charging, and prosecuting his lower level advisors (Capone's accountant, etc), building evidence as they climbed up the chain of command toward the boss.

    Do you believe that the Watergate Republican presidential campaign paid burglars should have been allowed to break-into the Watergate building Democrat headquarters June 17, 1972 to obtain presidential election plans? Do you believe that the 69 people indicted and 48 people convicted, many of them top Republican President Richard Nixon administration officials, should have been allowed to walk free? Do you believe that President Nixon should not have resigned before the investigation climbed up the ladder to him, while congress was making plans for his impeachment? Or if not successfully impeached, that Nixon should give presidential pardons to the convicted Watergate criminals? Or do you believe that Vice President Ford, who became President in exchange for Nixon resigning, should have pardoned Nixon for all crimes that he may have committed?

    What was the parking garage whistleblower nicknamed? Deep Throat? What did he say to the reporters investigating Watergate, and having difficulty trying to find any links between Watergate and Nixon during the executive privilege cover-up? "Follow the money?" Would this include the tax returns?

    Does anyone see similarities between yesteryear's Capone and Nixon investigative procedures with those applied to the aids, advisors, and associates of Donald Trump?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,544 ✭✭✭✭Tony EH


    I think it's you who'd be more at home in 1930's Germany. 😉

    The only thing that would change is the name of the fuhrer you'd worship.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 47,335 CMod ✭✭✭✭Black Swan


    What does the future hold for Donald Trump? In contemplating his expected run for the Republican 2024 presidential nomination, let Ireland and the other world democracies not forget what happened earlier this year. Especially now, when Trump’s supporters are trying a bit of revisionist history, including hundreds of arrested defendants, reclaiming that it was a peaceful crowd that broke into the congressional building on that day of infamy.

    Fortunately, there are hours of videos to show the mob violence as it happened, and ironically, many of those video recordings of violence were made by Trump supporters and posted online by them. Lots of mob violence face time on mobiles.

    The hallmark of America as the world’s leading democracy was its peaceful transition of power between presidents after elections. That dramatically changed on 6 January 2021 when sitting President Donald Trump encouraged a mob of his supporters at a rally within sight of the Capitol to violently break into the building while the US Congress was in session.

    People died and were injured as a result, and Congress was forced to flee for their lives while the violent mob of Trump supporters with Trump hats and flags smashed their way through police barricades, windows, and doors, injuring many Capitol police officers, including the death of one.

    The Republican Vice President, whom chaired the congressional session per the US Constitution, had to flee to safety, while many Trump supporters shouted hang Mike Pence! Because Pence would not betray his constitutional duties to certify the Biden win, they saw him as a traitor to their Trump cause. An ominous rope with noose was prominently displayed for hanging Pence immediately outside the Capitol building.

    A more important question for us than what does the future hold for Donald Trump, is what does the future hold for Ireland and the other democracies if Trump is allowed to slip away after that day of infamy, and worse, if he once again occupies the Oval Office, and then refuses to leave it peacefully, again?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,223 ✭✭✭✭briany


    The fact of the matter is that there is a large group of people in the United States who will never turn their back on Trump no matter how much evidence you offer that he is a crazy charlatan (the speech he gave at the Capitol, the conversations on tape with Bob Woodward, the call to Georgia SoS trying to 'find' 10,000 more votes). They're living in a whole other reality.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,244 ✭✭✭Brid Hegarty


    And a lot of them are dying from covid I assume. And even if they weren't they tend to be the older population so a certain amount of them will have died over this 4 year term lessening his Trump's chances more.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,424 ✭✭✭notobtuse


    Yes, there were a few overzealous individuals on Jan6 and they should have been prosecuted. But the vast majority of those you call rioters are best represented by this Public Enemy Number One...

    https://img.buzzfeed.com/buzzfeed-static/static/2021-01/12/22/tmp/0308066dc00f/9a5e411bcef2895088754ac24a6568bc-23.jpg?crop=625:327;0,89

    You can ignorantly accuse me of "whataboutism," but what it really is involves identifying similar scenarios in order to see if it holds up when the shoe is on the other foot!



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,513 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,064 ✭✭✭Christy42


    Overzealous people who killed someone? I believe that is exactly what people are talking about when they say revisionist history. I have said before I was tracking the donald.win before and after that err... "kerfuffle". The tone shift was immediate from egging on violence to pretending they were always perfectly peaceful and never discussed violence.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,823 ✭✭✭✭Igotadose


    719 charged so far. In the US not everyone arrested is charged. So far more arrested. Overzealous is trolling.


    Noto needs help.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,424 ✭✭✭notobtuse



    The only person killed in the protest was a unarmed woman protestor who was climbing through a window by an overzealous police officer. Why does your side keep that proven lie that anyone else was killing, going? Do you not see how comments like that are laughable when you talk about other's lies?

    You can ignorantly accuse me of "whataboutism," but what it really is involves identifying similar scenarios in order to see if it holds up when the shoe is on the other foot!



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,424 ✭✭✭notobtuse


    Trump and all other former US Presidents are not above the law. But we both know the Legislative Branch of the government often works against the president for pure political reasons, the 2 purely political impeachments of Trump are prime examples, and Executive Privilege helps guard from compulsory process of the legislative or judicial branches of the government, and maintains the separation of powers.


    I lived through Watergate. The crooks and those who masterminded it should have been arrested. But the spying of the opposing campaigns was nothing new. John F Kennedy was great at it. Nixon was stupid and got caught in the cover-up as he had nothing to do with the break-in. It would have been better for him to have taken the tapes out on the Whitehouse lawn and burned them. Nowadays they just gain FISA warrants to spy on the other campaign by fraudulent means… and get away with it.


     Do you think all the high ranking democrats, included Obama who demanded to be kept abreast of the spying as it happened according to sources, should be prosecuted, for their part in the apparent criminal FISA warrant by lies, deceit, and forgeries to spy on Trump’s campaign?


    And there is no similarities between Capone and Nixon investigations to the aids, advisors, and associates of Donald Trump. Ridiculous.

    You can ignorantly accuse me of "whataboutism," but what it really is involves identifying similar scenarios in order to see if it holds up when the shoe is on the other foot!



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