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Is our health service already undergoing a collapse?

Indestructable

I've a feeling our health system has already, at least partially, collapsed.

I was in a pharmacy today and the woman ahead of me was getting antigen tests for her parents. She was almost certain both of them had chest infections. She couldn't get hold of a GP, her own wasn't answering the phone for the past 2 days and none other in the area would see them. The advice was to bring them to the A and E.

On the radio today some higher up in the HSE was saying avoid A and E if at all possible.

There are many other stories like this, what are you experiences?

It's borderline impossible to get frontline medical attention now. A collapse won't happen all at once, it's a gradual process that seems to be ongoing now. Starting with GP care.

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[Deleted User]

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118206425#Comment_118206425

I’m simply curious as to what ideas you might have. Don’t need be a health expert, more a financial or business one.

Brucie Bonus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118206962#Comment_118206962

Nothing, no. I see people lying sick on trolleys in corridors every year at this time. I say to myself, that's a problem. I then conclude government should address it. Thats what we pay them for after all.

Economics101

The real scandal is not that health is underfunded. Ireland is well up in the league of public expenditure per head and as a % of National Income. Add in to the mix (a) a relatively young population and (b) a sizeable chunk of private funding via health insurance (> 40% of households), and the picture is even more scandalous.

There may be some genuine measurement issues (i.e. do all countries classify social care as "health" of under some other heading?). My own purely personal hunch is that management is hopeless, and restrictive practices are rife.

One example of what's going on: a local TD has been sending flyers about a new primary care health centre: opening hours Monday-Friday 0900 to 1700. I have heard it said that one aim of the new centres was to treat minor injuries and thus relieve pressure on Emergency Departments: imagine doing that when you close at 5pm!

buried

Only thing that will fix that service, or any service in this country for that matter is to get serious with the racket that is and has always been going on. Set up a tribunal or trial of enquiry as to where, what and who were ultimately responsible for the hundreds of Billions of our money that was funneled into a service and was ultimately p!ssed down the drain. Have 12 members of the citizenry to adjudicate on the findings of the trial. Set it up as enquiry that could lead to criminal charges for those found to be responsible, if charged then they and their descendants can pay for the trial/tribunal costs. Implement a few goes of something like that, you'd definitely see everything running very very smoothly.

Brucie Bonus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118207143#Comment_118207143

We have people in place carrying out checks and balances. The problem is there are obviously holes and nobody wants to address them. Its not my job or kick the can down the road. You can be sure somebody is making out nice.

If you recall something simple like storing e-voting machines. Every political chancer and his friend had one out the back earning them storage fees. These are the kind of petty little gangster we have watching over health.

buried

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118207180#Comment_118207180

There is no accountability to those checks and balances. The findings are only published after the deeds have been done in a burlesque style narrative to make everybody sigh "oh dear that's terrible". We need to demand actual accountability. The same accountability the likes of the Department of Revenue ascribe to the ordinary citizenry who ultimately have to pay for everything.

Brucie Bonus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118207211#Comment_118207211

I agree. Look at the NCH. Blank cheque until the media got wind.

Wasn't it 14 million sent to a music promoter based in the middle east for not fit for purpose ventilators.

enricoh

I read 300 millions worth of PPE was purchased last year and has been written off as unusable. It didn't mention anyone getting the bullet over it!

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/allegations-of-abject-failure-on-ppe-purchase-rejected-1.4682245

Every year for the last 5-10 years there was a budget over run in health but more than expected corporation tax was taken in n it was well covered. With new changes in corporation tax we may no longer get more than expected but I'll bet we'll still get budget overruns in health!

BrianD3

Another week, another case of ruined lives and an 8 figure settlement.

https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/courtandcrime/arid-40753377.html

Based on my experiences in public hospitals it is not at all surprising that things like this happen. Less serious variations happen all the time - hospitals are a shambles, patients with pre existing conditions are admitted to A&E, nobody has a clue what's going on and arrogant HCWs don't listen to relatives when they explain.

85603

Having done the a+e long wait I did wonder at the time why it couldnt be arranged for the waiting 'patient-to-be' to leave and come back closer to the time when the doctor could see them. (Without risk of losing slot)

Thats something that could actually be fixed.

Im sure there are barriers, and reasons (most probably including legal reasons), why it works this way.

But if I was going to attack the whole mess then 'people hanging around in a+e for 10-20 hrs' would be the low hanging fruit to go for first. I know theres a better way.

As it stands you check in and thats it, no more information for you, see you in 2-20 hours maybe, but dont leave because reasons, next.

Its after the first 9 hours that you wonder did they even put you in the queue.

Multipass

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118231176#Comment_118231176

These huge settlements are a problem - that money is needed elsewhere. By all means the victims of malpractice should get all of their medical needs and housing adaptations etc covered, but I don’t see why that shouldn’t be on the basis of receipts, instead of these enormous lump sums. No one person, in any condition, is going to need 25 million. It’s obscene when you have people waiting years for treatment.

Wanderer78

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118231910#Comment_118231910

sounds like an easy fix, but id imagine these type of ideas have already been floated, the reality is, theres no real way of accurately predicting how long it would take to deal with every case, as every case would be uniquely unique, yes many cases would be very similar to past experiences but.....

theres also already existing pre a&e systems in place, yes they have their limitations, but theres a reason why these systems send people to a&e, sending these patience away in an emergency situation would be potentially very dangerous and extremely risky, as their condition could dramatically deteriorate unexpectedly, and services simply wouldnt be able to react to this, i.e. ambulance services may not be able to get to these individuals in time

it may seem like low hanging fruit, but......

85603

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118232058#Comment_118232058

Then something other than a plastic and stainless steel seat, and a seemingly endless wait.

One thing that makes waiting intolerable to humans is uncertainty. Thats why we do bus time displays and pedestrian crossings with timers.

A 30 min wait with certainty is a whole lot better than not knowing during a 10 min wait.

An estimated consultation time within a 2 hour window/variable is surely achieveable.

I almost fecked off home several times while using the current system as it is. The temptation is strong.

Give people a curtained cubicle, a trolley to lie/sleep on, an estimated time.

And now the a+e crisis is a lot less crisisey.

Multipass

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118232171#Comment_118232171

I went to A&E at midnight, after a mini stroke, and was told minimum of 8 hours wait. I sat on the hard chair for 2, and then decided I’d rather take my chances in my bed. I asked could I just go and come back at 6 or 7am and was told no. It’s inhumane and stupid to have people sit all night on a chair. I went to my gp next day, who sent to me to a different part of the same hospital - I forget what the name of the unit was, but it was like a secret A&E - they gave me toast and everything

riclad

Even if covid is over there, ll be 200k plus people who need treatment for long covid our medical service was not designed for a pandemic there's also a problem with highly trained medical staff getting covid they take 2 weeks off and there's no one to replace them when does covid end no one knows there's millions of people in Africa who cannot even get vaxxed out economy can't survive if we don't allow travellers to come here

It's obvious our health services are very limited already

[Deleted User]

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118232589#Comment_118232589

Shhhhsh. Don't ruin it for the other people with serious illness

mandrake04

I used to work in Pathology Diagnostics years ago, I worked over in the UK for a few years before coming back and working in Ireland for a few different companies. Some of the stuff I was working on was ex-NHS and was absolutely flogged, its was called 'refurbished' but really it should have been in the skip or on the donation boat to 3rd world counties. They did buy new equipment but this was often sweetened with a selection of old stuff as I was told the money wasn't there.

BattleCorp1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118232023#Comment_118232023

It actually does cost that amount of money to look after someone with a severe brain injury. Remember, they have to be cared for for the rest of their lives.