Formula 1 2021 - General Discussion Thread (Read 1st post rules)

I would be pretty comfortable betting that Lewis would have won that race in a straight shootout. Max never looked faster than Lewis at any point, even on fresh meduim tyres vs Lewis on fresh hard tryes. Lewis was faster than Max at the beginning, and the whole second half of the final stint. And won the race comfortably in the end.

I don't really see any chance of a tight battle for the race win next weekend unless something happens to slow Lewis down like a safety car or crash or similar.

I think a lot of the dislike for Hamilton is borne out of the nonsense we heard form him on the radio yesterday

Imola he was able to change tyres and damaged parts without losing any ground

Silverstone he was able to do the same

Red flag yesterday and he was whining about Max being able to change tyres. There is very definitely something about his demeanour where this is all a conspiracy if everyone being out to get him, he was at it in Sochi last year when he accused the stewards of being out to stop him because he couldn't be bothered to read the race directors notes.

Hamilton ran Rosberg off at Austin 2015 in the exact same Manner Max did yesterday and didn't get a penalty. There is a few other examples of him doing the same on YouTube.

Hamilton quote - Paul Ricard 2018 after Seb hit Bottas at T1

"Hamilton was pleased with his performance but critical that Vettel had not received a harsher penalty. “It’s disappointing for the team,” he said. “We all go into turn one as hard as we could but when someone destroys your race through an error and it’s only a tap on the wrist and you are still able to come back and finish ahead of the person you took out, it doesn’t add up.”

Yeah the Hamilton fanatics on here do seem to be really deficient in critical thinking capability.

Lewis earned a minimum 32 point swing by deliberately taking out Max at Silverstone - it was actually more than that because it also destroyed Verstappen’s engine and forced him to take a penalty later on costing him a shot at a win in Russia. It also cost the team millions in repair costs which had to come out of their development budget because of the cost cap, something that has hurt them in the late stages of the season.

Even if you’re crazy enough to think that the overtake Verstappen legitimately attempted at Monza was anything close to the level of Lewis’ disgusting behaviour at Silverstone, that literally cost Lewis nothing because both cars went out, and Max was miles ahead of Lewis in that race before then and they only ended up near each other because of the FIA rule change Mercedes demanded that led to lots of dangerous slow pitstops. Had Lewis given space like a defending car is supposed to and not turned in on top of Max, Verstappen would have got him on the exit and finished ahead in that race because he had the pace.

At no point in the entire season has Verstappen gained anything by doing anything untoward. He’s defended aggressively a couple of times, and handed the place over afterwards on each occasion. Lewis on the other hand is only still in the running because he’s a dirty driver who took his rival out and put him in the hospital and celebrated it. And even then he’d still be a long way behind if Bottas hadn’t also taken Max out for good measure the following week, something Max was only in the firing line for because Lewis had been playing games and holding him up deliberately in qualifying the day before.

It’s really hard to imagine how any neutral supporter with a modicum of morality or ethics could think Hamilton would be a deserving champion with the way he’s conducted himself this year. He’d be about as deserving a champion as Lance Armstrong or Tonya Harding.

Not sure I agree but we of course don't have to :)

I still think the plan for RB was pole and then just match the Merc, the speed difference was compounded with different tires. Max was making the time up in the first sector to then compensate the DRS. He fell foul of the Virtual Safety car when it was lifted after the sector he made the most time in. Not saying he would have been able to hold onto that with the mediums, but RB had no choice really but to go on them for the restart.

I still think they are close on raw pace, had Max gotten the pole, Toto said the gap would have been 4-5 tenths, so there is still a performance balance between the two teams.

The Woolshed maybe?

There are a couple of pantomime posters on here regurgitating the same lines over and over again. It's getting boring at this stage.

The main straight is c.1.2km long.

Favours Lewis ?

There's a lot of this about now on both sides of the fence. "I have no skin in the game here but how has Verstappen not gotten everyone killed?" type of thing. I don't know if its because they think that by saying they're not a fan they feel their opinion holds more weight because it's not formed out of bias, or if its just trolling. Either way it's annoying.

I think, either you are genuinely new to the sport and haven't watched enough to form a solid opinion, or you will have watched it a fair amount and have formed your opinions and biases. You'll know which drivers you like and you will be more kind to them in any non black and white situations(indeed, even in black and white scenarios you may accept the driver mistake but ask why another driver you don't like hasn't received the same punishment). I think if you want to have genuine discussion you probably need to accept that you can see the same situation in a completely different way to someone else.

But the majority of the discussions now are basically one person good, other person bad.

Personally, I can't stand this new pervasive attitude that Max has been so dangerous this year that when someone crashes into him, it's his own fault. It seems to be a reaction or justification to the title race being so close. I think it's fair to say he's looking more desperate in recent races as the car he's in is at its most disadvantaged against the Merc as it has been all year, but that seems to have turned into some revisionism that he's basically been like that all year and there would have been loads of other crashes if other drivers were insane like him. Most of the time he's won corners with good, aggressive driving, helped by being lightning quick off the line.

Shall we try a neutral post then and see how we get on?

I am not a Hamilton fan, or a Verstappen fan. Hamilton is a fantastic driver and an 8th championship would be an incredible achievement but I think Max has edged it this year, he would be a worthy and deserving champion and can count himself unlucky if he doesn't win it. But...

I do think Max's driving at the last couple of races and at times earlier in the season has been over the line. To assess this, and the occasions where Hamilton has been at fault too, you need to get beyond the personalities of the drivers involved and any favouritism or enmity towards them, and try to consider what is good for the sport. If drivers are allowed to defend overtakes the way Max did in Brazil, and similarly in Saudi Arabia where Max and Lewis were both guilty of it, would that encourage exciting, close, wheel-to-wheel racing, or would it make or make it even more difficult and risky than it already is? I think the latter.

Others have already commented that for such a close championship season there has been very little good on track battling between the 2 drivers, and this is because as soon as they get close on track they collide, or someone is forced to yield to avoid a collision or is run off the track. Neither is innocent in this regard but on balance I think it is more often Max who has been at fault, he is certainly the more aggressive and never seems to yield. Silverstone is sure to rankle with many, the collision was not Max's fault but he could have avoided it, let Hamilton through, and still won the race as the Red Bull was clearly faster there. If he gains that cool headedness and maturity he will be an even better driver than he already is.

Imola and Spain are the only 2 I really disagree with, that get brought up a lot. I've watched them both again and both times he's gotten his car on the inside far enough up to consider the corner his. He runs slightly wide but if Hamilton stands his ground there then there could be a crash and he would be at fault for it. When the contact happened at Silverstone, Toto was trying to argue that it was Max' fault for moving in as Lewis had been alongside him enough for him to be able to consider the corner his(but the replays showed he wasn't near enough beside him).

Since Brazil, as I've said I definitely think he's been more erratic as he tries to get some sort of foothold in each race. The FIA have almost abdicated responsibility for fear that they will wreck the title run in.

Overall though I find people are really looking for examples of him being dangerous to fuel the narrative that any and all contact he's involved in is his fault.

You are absolutely right and the key point is ' if Hamilton stands his ground there then there could be a crash'. So when Hamilton doesn't yield and Max comes off second best, lets apply the same standards.

Imola and Spain are both the same move, take a massively early apex so you purposely run wide and run out of road. I said at the time that Hamilton's mistake at Silverstone was dropping too much speed, trying to make the corner on the tighter line, when he's been given a lesson all season that the FIA consider it legal if your on the inside to just run it wide and force the guy on the outside out of road.

What Max has achieved this season is phenomenal, in what has been a slower car for most of the year, combined with unforced errors and bad strategy by Hamilton and Mercedes, but to say that he's not been over the limit with a lot of his driving this year is not exactly true. What I would like to see is some consistency by the FIA, not applying arbitrary penalties for the sake of it, and Toto and Horner to stop badgering the FIA every time something doesn't go their way.