Drunken man and woman commit lewd public acts. No violence, no coercion. The guy gets six years for sexual assault and she gets off scot free. Something badly wrong here.
There are many consequences, one of which is falling and cracking your head; and another is creating circumstances that allow predators to identify a target. You've accepted the premise because presumably you understand that actions have consequences.
Forget the fact it's a woman.
Let's take a man who gets seriously intoxicated. He learns the next day that a scumbag thief has taken advantage of his vulnerability and stolen his wallet.
Now, I would conclude that the man must bear some responsibility as much as the thief, because the man stupidly created a circumstance where his wallet could be easily stolen. He learns from the mistake, and doesn't imbibe that much alcohol in future. Whereas presumably you would conclude that the man bears no responsibility whatsoever; it's all on the thief?
That’s life. If you can’t look after yourself you need to deal with the consequences.
i'm not the one claiming it is easily defended. I'm not going to do the work for you. how can you claim you had consent when the other person is completely blind drunk?
Sorry, but as an independent observer, you are putting words into his mouth. He's talking about personable responsibility. If she'd, or anyone for that matter, got so drunk that they drunkenly fell in front of a car would that have be the drivers fault??
Two scenarios.
1. Both are too drunk to consent neither claims assault.
2. Both are too drunk to consent, one claims assault.
Given that there is no physical or other evidence of assault, in which of these two scenarios does assault occur?
'Given that women are highly vulnerable in an intoxicated state, they should bear responsibility for the amount of alcohol they consume - '
Are all people not vulnerable when intoxicated?
The only responsibility is indeed for the amount of alcohol consumed, anything that they do themselves when in that state, can be their responsibility. How you can possibly think they are in anyway responsible for the actions of a complete stranger is beyond me.
Im not asking you to do anything at all. Have a wonderful day and enjoy the thread.
they said, and continue to say, that the woman bears partial responsibility for being sexually assaulted. do you agree with them?
I think there is an interesting question to be asked along the lines of whether "I was to drunk to be able to ascertain whether the other person was too drunk to grant informed consent" is something that can be offered as a defence.
But that isn't really what happened here. And I think it's fairly noticeable, and fairly sad (albeit entirely predicatable) that once it became very difficult to question the verdict in this case directly, we have seen these new and unrelated arguments get shoehorned (responsibility for being drunk in the first place/both too drunk to consent) into the thread.
pops in, makes a nonsense claim, then runs away when called on it. the standard of discussion is really high.
No, because I can’t know that.
She walked off with him so she obviously thought it was a good idea at the time. What happened afterwards is shrouded in speculation, thought some people here seem to have a crystal ball.
I said if she had had her senses on her she would have been able to assess the situation better, because she clearly regretted her decision afterwards.
If I left for work this morning, and left my front door open, would I bear no responsibility for being robbed??
No, because SHE fell, actually, the driver may be found slightly at fault depending on circumstances, but, her action of falling caused her injury.
she didn't sexually assault herself 🙄
answer the question. is she partially responsible for the sexual assault? it is a yes or no question. be honest.
No, you wouldnt!
Because you are the victim of a person who burgled your house.
Lol. Try telling your insurer that.
Not sure what your insurance had to do with it? Do they decide the law?
He absolutely would bear some responsibility for creating the conditions for a crime to take place against his interests.
When we lock our doors, we do it to be responsible.
No.
No he would not.
What the duck is wrong with people in this country? Blaming victims wholesale for crimes committed against them. Jesus I hope non of you ever sit in a jury
Because you are classifying crime and responsibility in a very narrow way.
Take a terrorist, who guns down victims indiscriminately. The terrorist takes 100% responsibility because the victims were in no way involved in the crime - not the conditions that created it, nor where it occurred. It's effectively random.
Take a man, who becomes ridiculously drunk - falling all over the place and drinking excessively, and with full knowledge that this was the path he chose when he went out that night. His wallet gets robbed, as he is taken advantage of by a thief. In this crime, the man must bear responsibility for creating the conditions that identified him as a target. If he didn't get drunk, the crime would not have taken place.
Whereas in the crime above, it would have happened no matter what.
If you absolve people of all responsibility, don't be surprised if they repeat the same stupid behaviour in the future.
They said exactly that. you need to pay more attention before defending people. Do you agree with them that she is partially responsible for the sexual assault?
She is partially responsible for creating the conditions where she could be taken advantage of. She couldn't stand up apparently. That doesn't happen from just one drink, no matter what the judge thinks.
No, the drunk man has no responsibility for the actions of other people
I'm not sure what this thread says about the morals of boards posters, but it's not good.
As I pointed out, if she fell in front of a car, that would be her own action.
she didn't sexually assault herself
well you are honest at least. every non-sober woman is now partially responsible if they are sexually assaulted. what about if they walk down a dark street late at night on their own? would they be partially responsible then if they were sexually assaulted?
Seeing as it's clear from posters here that all men are a possible sexual deviant/rapist who cannot control themselves around drunk women, only drunk ones, (sober women are never assaulted)🙄 perhaps it time to tackle that problem?
Who is for a curfew for men? No men in the street at night time when there are drunken women around? How's about that then?
clearly I'm being sarcastic.
While I don't agree with the phrasing that women are partially responsible if they are sexually assaulted (the person who assaults are wholly responsible for their actions), it would be ridiculous to assert that any person doesn't have to be responsible for themselves and the situations they put themselves into.
If a woman (or a man) walks down a dark street late at night in a bad neighbourhood, it is absolutely not their fault if they gets assaulted, but it wouldn't be unreasonable to question if they could have done something differently to avoid putting themselves in harms way.
As stated before, if you leave your front door open and someone steals your belongings, the person wholly responsible for the theft is the thief. But you must take personal responsibility and recognise that you did nothing to minimise the opportunity for the theft, and actively maximised the chances that somebody would steal.
There are bad people in the world that will act badly. Everyone has a personal responsibility to look after themselves and to know what risks they take when getting intoxicated.
Being unable to stand up is not non-sober. I'm done with your contortions. G'dluck.
are you forgetting the part where he carried on his shoulder to a dark place?
to be honest carrying her won’t have been an easy feat.
They were disturbed and filmed by others, anyone would find a different and more secluded space then. I doubt she wanted to be filmed by strangers either
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