Fine Gael stayed out of all coalition discussions for the first few weeks. It was only when it was clear that Sinn Fein had completely failed to seriously discuss coalition with anyone that FG got back in the talks.
SF had ample time to form a coalition but like a spoiled child they ended up complaining that the big boys wouldn't let them play.
Yes, FG who were 'happy' to go into opposition managed to cobble together a government with somebody who told the electorate they would NEVER coalesce with FG.
Nothing suspicious to see here. 😁😁
Thanks, I didn't know that was the name on it. I can have a read around on it now :)
Just because FG stayed out for the first few weeks doesn't mean that SF weren't blocked from a fair chance. Trust me, I get what you're saying but nobody, except those that were in the room, know how accommodating FF and other parties were to SF about the coalition negotiations. I don't believe that anybody wanted to get in with SF - based on all of their media communications around the time.
I'm a neutral and don't care either way if they had a fair shot. I'm just saying that most evidence points to it not being the case.
no worries, theres tons of research on this now, from very well respected sources, some of which were screaming it from their mountain tops, during the previous boom, our primary governmental parties, in fact, most of our political parties, have been engaging in this thinking for decades now, and still do, its lethal
It wasn't just about FF and FG. The Greens, the Social Democrats, Labour, none of them wanted to touch SF with a bargepole. PBP, who were split on the issue complained that SF never seriously negotiated.
And Sinn Fein are on record many times of wanting to see an end to FF and FG government yet complained and whinged about being snubbed by them.
Went off on a huff If I recall correctly blanchey. Didn't appreciate having their asses handed to them by the electorate.
Your a green though, thankfully they saved the day.
SF clearly sad they did not want a FG or FF led government, nor a coalition/merger/C&S version. They never said they would not talk coalition.
The fact is, FF & FG have been forced to end almost 100 years of civil war politics by entering a merger/coalition, (call it what you want) and the reason is obvious. They are trying to shut out a competitor party - simple as and irrefutable.
yes, the political left is also atrocious, but in its own way, as you explained, but are large proportion of the political left has also been engaging in the fire sector approach to politics and economics, i.e. they are also complicit in our current fcuk up!
They stepped up to the plate when the country needed them. This pandemic has been bad but one shudders to think how a completely inexperience government would have handled it. Just imagine Violet-Anne as the Minister for Vaccines.
...we ve no way of knowing how an alternative government would have dealt with our current situation, and we have no way of actually known either, i suspect they d just be as good and bad as our current, but different
Sinn Fein didn't fail, none of the parties with enough seats wanted to deal with them.
In fairness, SF is incompatible with FF and FG.
FF and FG said they were incompatible with each other for years, but now we know that's false.
oh wait for it, a possible sff one!
Yes, the Greens were clever and saw how they were likely to get more policy implemented through the current government than by getting into bed with the nutters in the other parties.
We can more or less know. On the vaccine issue, we would have had Covid Certs, we would have had the pubs opened much earlier, those are known.
Now that the opinion polls are showing huge public support for Covid Certs, will Mary-Lou change her mind?
.......
See all Irish media of note, recognising that Martin had opened the door to coalition talks the night of the General election.
Of course they would have dealt with SF...what you mean is - they would not deal with a SF with an equal mandate to them or with a larger one.
Let's not put a tooth in it. Sleeveen politics as practiced by the kings of it...Fianna Fail and Fine Gael.
.....and effectively default to a fire sector approach of sorts to try do so.....
Can you quote Martin's actual words in that regard? You have said this many times without ever producing a link to his actual words.
Agreed 100% many seem to take it for granted. It is the heads ( in border counties and/or those with out and out Republican mindset) that see no difference with political instability and chaos. For them it is a means to an end all part of ‘the struggle’.
In my mind I would compare SF to an auld smelly carpet. The SF grassroots love that smell it is part of their tradition. And are keen to remember the smell when it suits or mask it when it is politically expedient.
The carpet either needs to be replaced or given a deep clean. But SF have chosen to put a fancy new lamp on the carpet to try and distract others from the smell that others find morally repugnant.
They also have chosen to gradually clean the carpet slowly as it is part of the two state strategy. The smell has to be masked much more on the South end of the carpet it wishes to control.
First rule of sleeveen politics blanch, never say it outright, allow the lines be read between. You know how it works.
See Irish Times and Indo journos and many poster here reading between the lines.
Gives you loads of denial room too of course and you have denied it strenuously, but then that's sleeveen politics for you.
No reading between lines needed for this one though Francie.
Shure we know 'reading between the lines' there McMurphy that he didn't really mean it, shure you know how it works yourself, you say these things during a campaign...etc etc etc
Threads merged
Edit:
Just to be clear threadbans carry over
So what have we established over the last round of debate?
SF are popular but still untrustworthy and will be found out the day they get into power?
Probably about right.
Sleeveen politics would surely be more about claiming somebody said something when they say they didn't and the actual comment can't be produced?
i am suggesting that yes .
a jury trial is the only legitimate trial.
if that is where the case should go then yes, just like any other case will either be dealt with in the district or the higher courts depending on the case.
Complete nonsense. Most jurisdictions don't have jury courts.
Well, which is it? Do you want to abolish it like Sinn Fein or not?
