Martin opened the door to SF when he thought he was going to be the leader of the largest party (when it looked like they would take approx 50 seats)
That door was quickly shut though when he realised he wouldn't be, revealing what the high moral ground bullshitting was all about to begin with.
It's easy to take advantage of a housing crisis and wave through any development too.
I haven't yet seen an objection that is not based on bad/inappropriate planning or a wheeze to enrich a developer.
they d be nothing like trumpism, thankfully we havent gone full retard in that respect
ah theres a lot of optics and bullsh1tting in politics, its just an element of the beast, dont be surprised if sff get into bed next!
Even after the election results were clear, Micheal Martin said he wouldn't form a coalition with FG.
Two months later they were in government together.
What a snake.
They couldn't form a government because the numbers were not there.
They had more than enough in terms of a mandate to be in a government though. But two parties wanted to cling on to power for a while longer. And one of them totally ignored part of the mandate they had been given (to never go into coalition with FG) to so cling on.
Except...there's no proof of this or at least no proof that would warrant the creation of a separate court system outside the standard court system.
Mary Robinson wrote a report back in 1980 saying as much. "There has not been any substantial enquiry...into the justification for and the operation of the Special Criminal Court", and this was at the height of the Troubles.
https://www.jstor.org/stable/25546774
Besides, intimidation (if it happens) can happen as much with any other case.
Have you addressed the gaping hole in your posts re SF wanting to amend lpt yet? SF want to abolish lpt. If you're such a supporter how come come you dont even know what you are supporting.
No, the point has always been about being able to form a government.
SF regardless of what mandate they had or how many 1st preference votes they had could not form a government.
Maybe they will the next time.
The reasons for the use of the SCC relate to the possibility of jury intimidation. Any similar trial involving a good republican would be subject to the same risks.
That was all meaningless nonsense spouted by Sinn Fein.
Yes, they had the highest first preference vote of any party in the last election. However, if that meant an automatic right to be in government, our first non-Fianna Fail government would have been in 2011, as they would have been in government since the foundation of the State. So, the whinging and crying from Sinn Fein supporters about that issue was completely meaningless.
They would have picked up six or seven more seats if they had run extra candidates, but that would have squeezed People Before Profit, Social Democrats and other opposition parties, not the three government parties, so it would have given them a stronger opposition profile but wouldn't have changed anything. On the other hand, there were constituencies where if they had ran two candidates, they might not have taken a seat if the intra-SF transfers hadn't been great.
I understand that.
Was Al Capone brought to a juryless court for his tax evasion? No, he wasn't!
Should Slab Murphy be brought to the SCC for parking tickets or an unpaid TV license? No! Then why was he brought there for tax charges?
No masks was the first thing I noticed.
because slab is a terrorist padre or do you think he isnt ?
That's a different matter.
Why is the SCC taking on tax cases?
Would they take him to the SCC on his parking fines too?
Again, it feels like the SCC is used where Gardai have a suspicion of guilt, but not enough evidence. They use the SCC as their testimony is taken as evidence.
Easy way to bang up people they've taken a personal dislike to.
a real whos who of shinner bots this thread 😊😊😘
The point was always the size of the mandate not legitimacy. Nobody has challenged the legitimacy of somebody democratically elected.
Of course you can talk about the strength of the mandate, weren't the Shinners and smaller parties always told this, 'you don't have a mandate etc etc'?
Now that they have the stronger mandate, the rules of conversation change. 😁
ordinary people like ??
slab ?
Jonathan Dowdall prehaps
Didn't SF have the highest number of 1st votes of any party in the last general election
This is exactly what I am talking about.
The highest number of 1st preferences votes does not matter a hoot if you still don't elect enough TDs.
SF are setting this narrative that 1st preferences votes are more important than seats.
They did get the 1st preference votes. However part of the point of PR is to allow similar parties to run without splitting their vote entirely. FF/FG got around 50% of 1st preference votes between. Definitely more than 50% if you add in Greens. Sinn Fein should have run more candidates and would have gotten more TDs however they would not have been in power by themselves no matter how many candidates they ran and they struggle to find big enough partners. Certainly SF got the most votes of a single party but the system encourages partnerships and the current partnership got a lot more than SF when combined.
That's not "Francie" - it's a different poster, says right there in his post you quoted.
hi francie ,
one crime gang for another , is really your best option ?
Is this the case though? Didn't SF have the highest number of 1st votes of any party in the last general election. I thought it was said that they'd probably have managed to get in if they'd ran more candidates? I'm not saying you're wrong, merely looking for more info from someone that knows.
I agree about the united Ireland stuff. At the moment that is not economically viable. It would ruin both of our economies which is not what we need just as we are beginning to grow again.
Where I am worried is in SFs approach to Covid. I am a bit uneasy about the possibility of an SF government because of how overly reluctant they seem to be in following NPHET advice etc. I think that they definitely have good points, especially around the rent caps and the "tax the rich" approach.
Overall I'd be nervous to see them get in but I don't think they're the evil do-ers that many paint them as.
i suspect they ll be as good and bad as the others, it ll be interesting to see what they do in government though, but i suspect it wont be an easy one for them, i suspect they ll struggle to implement major changes
There's never any contentious elections, politicians trying to mess with the constitution, or the judiciary.
Was this all a bad dream then?
FF and FG are voted for by the clear majority of voters so they have every right to run the show
No they didn't, they didn't even muster up 50% of seats COMBINED.
In what shape or form is that a "clear majority" of any description Kermit?
And I'll tell you something else, I believe they'll get even LESS seats next time out, some drop considering they used to command a combined 70/80% of seats between them.
they are going to get into power sometime regardless. all the armchair opinions wont matter a shite then. they'll either prove to be good in government, bad in government or as good as the rest of them - you wont know til you find out and we wont find out until they get a turn at the wheel.
Personally I think they give more of a bollocks for the average voter that any of the other parties. that might change once they get into power, and if it does they wont be getting my vote again
Small parties have never had trouble being relevant in Irish politics
The PR system allows that, in the past Labour were strong, you had the PDs, now the Greens, Democratic Left had influence at one time and go back all the way to to the 40s when you had the likes of Clann na Talmhan and Clann na Poblachta.
Our system is far more favorable to small parties than the systems in the US or UK.
And this is something that is worrying, SF are trying to set a seed that there is something wrong with our system of democracy.
I read on another thread about SF trying to imply that TDs elected on late counts did not have the same legitimacy as their TD who were elected on the first count.
That sort of narrative is dangerous, and what's more dangerous is people believing it.
I don't get this argument.
FF and FG are voted for by the clear majority of voters so they have every right to run the show.
For them not to have that right people would need to vote for someone else.
I don't see how, without radical change in SF, the other parties could allow them form part of a government.
Mindless populism won't get them a partner.
As another poster said they'll need to get more realistic.
They also need to understand most of their new vote atm is not for a United Ireland either.
That would also concern me. Would all our time be taken up dealing with the sh!tfest that is the north if SF were in govt?
Possibly non. But the manufactured housing crisis is a political decision...
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