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Change of pay date.

jay1988

Hi,

I'm just looking for some advice on this, everyone in my job received an email to inform us that our pay day was being changed, from the 5th working day of the month to the 6th working day of every month, now this may not seem like a big deal but iy now means we can't ever be paid in the first week of the month and if the 1st of the month is a Saturday, then wages won't be paid until the 10th or if there is a bank holiday then the 11th.

All contracts in the company state wages will be paid on the 5th working day of every month, now this isn't really a massive problem for me personally, however some members of the team I manage have stated this change will cause them issues with bills and rent especially with some of them saying their landlords are already unhappy that their rent is paid on different days every month.

I raised this with the CEO during a phone conference and he basically said if they don't like it they know what they can do.

My question is can they do this? They've basically made a change to everyones contract without informing them or seeking consent to make the change.

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bucketybuck

Yes, a company can make operational changes when it needs to.

Otherwise no company could ever do anything without first asking every single employee if they were ok with it, which clearly isn't the case.

jay1988

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117954713#Comment_117954713

I understand that but the contract also states that the company can't make any changes to the contract without informing staff and getting consent to do so.

bucketybuck

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117954825#Comment_117954825

That generally relates to individual terms and conditions, we are talking here about company wide policies.

I'll quote a paragraph here from a standard employees handbook that goes with our employment contracts, just as an example:

"Given the nature of the ever-changing market environment within which the company operates, and the likelihood of changes to employment legislation and practices, alterations to company policies may occur which could affect terms and conditions of employment. The company, therefore, reserves the right to alter or modify terms and conditions. Such changes will, at all times, be covered by employment law and, following consultation, will be notified to employees within legal requirements."

Each company has its own version but generally its pretty standard and you will note that nowhere does it say the employees consent is needed. I would be very surprised if your own company handbook does not have a similar clause.

jay1988

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117954860#Comment_117954860

Thanks for that, I must dig out the handbook, as I said its not a major problem for myself but i don't want anyone on my team rushing headfirst into complaining about this if they haven't a leg to stand on.

Strumms

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117954713#Comment_117954713

An operational change isn’t the same as a contract change though....

i was in a situation where we were asked by the MD about changing a pay date, the contract said we were to be paid on the 14th of each month unless the 14th was a Saturday or Sunday or BH Monday... when in that case we’d get paid the previous Friday ... the employer asked for a vote to make it the 18th or 19th I forget exactly , it was rejected... mainly because lots of us had the likes of direct debits and stuff set up that meant they would have required to go to a degree of effort and they didn’t fancy it... the original pay date remained.

bucketybuck

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117954891#Comment_117954891

You see this question come up when things happen like the company moving locations, or changing start/finish times, bringing in a new HR policy like clocking in/out, etc etc. Somebody always says, "Well, its not in my contract so I didn't agree to it".

Its never that simple. Companies are allowed to move location, they are allowed to set their opening hours, they are allowed to set company policies and they don't need consent from every employee to do it.

If ever brought to court I believe the standard is that of "reasonableness", at least according to our own company solicitor. In other words, will the court look at the details and go "The change is a reasonable one". In this case where the payroll date is being moved by only one day I would have to imagine that it is reasonable, regardless of how it happens to affect one or two people living month to month.

Atlantic Dawn

I can never understand people with issues on this, you are still on the same salary, just leave the rent money in the bank instead of spending it. Perhaps set up a different account that the rent money is fed from so its untouched.

jay1988

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117955006#Comment_117955006

I think its moreso an issue of some people are in house shares and the landlords won't change the rent date for just one housemate, so now they'll be at least a week late with rent every month and they'd be on fairly low salaries anyway (less than 2k take home per month).

[Deleted User]

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117955269#Comment_117955269

A bit of lateral thinking on the tenant/employee’s part should mean money for rent is in account. Commencement of tenancies are rarely timed to coincide precisely with pay dates.

[Deleted User]

Happened in the Civil Service years ago when they switched some grades from weekly to fortnightly pay, and weekly paid from weekly on Thursday to weekly on Friday.

There was some token lip service paid at "consultation", but in reality, it wasn't going to change the outcome and it was done anyway.

[Deleted User]

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117955269#Comment_117955269

You're very understanding tbh, I'd have no patience for that. I've never heard of a landlord changing the rent date to coincide with payday - my previous rent dates have always been calculated based on the day I moved in, and paid via standing order, not just whenever suited me!

If they cant trust themselves to earmark funds because of financial pressure, they can open a deposit account and send the money there when it comes in (with a standing order set up to pay it on at the appropriate date).

If they need to pay their rent on the 5th and will have to find 1 month's rent in advance to get in line with the new schedule, they can get an overdraft to tide them over while they get up to speed.

It's lovely that you clearly care about your colleagues, but I'd strongly advise you do whatever you can to stay out of it. You've nothing to gain by putting yourself in the middle of this and it doesn't sound like there's anything you can do for them.

[Deleted User]

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117955720#Comment_117955720

And the rationale for thinking that this should be the employees problem is?

The company pays them on x-date. It's contracted at this date. Employees have debits and standing orders set for this date. They may not be paid enough to be able to absorb even one month of a delayed payment.

Why do you think that this is their fault?

[Deleted User]

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117958389#Comment_117958389

So because the company decides to make a unilateral change, employees should pay for an overdraft?

[Deleted User]

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117958417#Comment_117958417

Its ridiculously simple to change a direct debit or standing order date.

You're being a tad dramatic.

[Deleted User]

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117958623#Comment_117958623

They don't get to change the dates on utilities and rent.

They will need all that money a week up front whenever the company decides to change, for families living paycheck to paycheck this would be a massive blow

[Deleted User]

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117958423#Comment_117958423

No, not because the company made a unilateral decision. Unilateral implies sides - companies arent run by sides, they're run (rightly or wrongly) by a hierarchy.

I dont suggest anyone should take out an overdraft unless they need to, but it may be an option for employees who need it.

[Deleted User]

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117958423#Comment_117958423

Or, just budget to pay rent. Neither wage has gone down, nor rent up, if the op needs an overdraft it is because they spent more of their wage than before the wage payment date was changed.

I really don’t see why you think an overdraft is needed, are you saying the employee lacks the capacity to set aside money for rent?

wildwillow

Why are you surprised an employee cannot have a month's rent in saving? Many people manage from month to month and regulate their spending so as not to be debt. Add childcare, power, insurance, car repayments, phones and many more and you will see why the day one is paid is important.

Factor in a long weekend waiting for pay, and one can find themselves seriously short of cash flow.

ThreeGreens

"I'm just looking for some advice on this, everyone in my job received an email to inform us that our pay day was being changed, from the 5th working day of the month to the 6th working day of every month"

Are you being paid for the previous month of the month that has just started?

jay1988

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117959409#Comment_117959409

For the previous month so for example, Septembers wages are paid on October 7th (last month at the 5th working day)

mrslancaster

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117954860#Comment_117954860

That handbook extract is saying any such changes will be covered by employment legislation so employees wouldn't need to consent to those - they are changes to the law and apply to everyone. It's not like the OP's pay date has developed through custom and practice, it is specified in their contract.

It is only one working day, but that could mean workers are not paid until the 8th, 9th or 10th of the following month. AFAIK that would need to be agreed between the employee and the company, otherwise what's to stop the company coming along next month and pushing the pay date out to the 15th working day or even the last working day of the next month.

Say the reason was to allow extra time for payroll processing, then why would the company not get agreement and issue an amendment to contracts rather than trying to bulldoze it through. Employees are reasonable.

kennethsmyth

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117958683#Comment_117958683

One solution is to ask the company to make a one off payment of 1 weeks salary to catchup the date. This is not extra money, its accounted for in that the payment is now never made in the first week of a month - it would be reasonable for a company to do this. They get to change the pay date and also the employee receives a weeks salary earlier to account for future delay