It relates to your belief that the EU doesn't matter in regards to Irish policy on immigration. Which, of course, it definitely does.
What is this law that is being introduced? The issue (previous discussion) with the 17k illegal immigrants isn't related to any kind of law being introduced, so I really don't have any idea what law you're referring to.
What are you on about. The EU is not dictating the law being discussed. You're making stuff up.
You’re referring of course to the vote in which there was a campaign to capitalise on the sentiment that immigrant women were getting pregnant to have their anchor babies in Ireland in order to stay here and avail of our generous welfare supports, at a time when Western economies had just come crashing back down to reality following the all fur coat and no knickers years.../...The same narrative portrayal of immigrants that swung a vote 25 years ago at a time when people were resentful of the handful of immigrants who they could point fingers at as being responsible for the ruination of the economy
Eh.... for all that well crafted spiel you're not exactly too strong on pretty basic facts are you? I hate to break it to you, but your premise falls on its arse for one simple reason: The 27th amendment vote was held in summer 2004, three years before bailing out bondholders was even dreamt of and Bertie Ahern was suggesting people moaning about the economy should commit suicide. Neither western economies nor Ireland's had come crashing down. We had one of the lowest unemployment rates since the foundation of the state and were still very much on the (paper) tiger's back buying up properties to beat the band on 100% mortgages while brickies were holidaying in Bali.
Why do you think we were such a sudden and popular destination for "refugees"? There were feck all here in the 70's and 80's. It started in the mid 90's when we were on the upswing. Funny that. And if there were ever a time for the Irish electorate to be cool and the gang with immigrants it was far more likely to be at the height of the celtic tiger. It's a very well known trend that when recessions hit racism goes up. In boom times the opposite trend is seen. Oh BTW the repeal of the 8th had a lower yes vote than the 27th and no way would we even dream of revisiting that and any politician who even mooted it would be rightfully taken to task. But if you're Labour, PBP and vested interest NGO's the 27th is apparently up for grabs.
And only the most naive would claim that pregnancy passports weren't in play before that loophole was closed. Hospital admins were seeing and reporting a remarkable number of non EU women showing up with waters breaking. Consider this: Nigerian migrants were the largest percentage of the African diaspora that came here pre the vote, after the vote and today over 90% of Nigerian applicants for asylum are rejected as bogus. Did something magically happen in the interim? Even wiki on the subject is pretty clear about the timeframe and reasons. The increase of Ireland's non-white population started with the Irish boom of 1997 to 2009 is due in part to the laws which had governed Irish citizenship since the creation of the Republic of Ireland in 1937. Though it wasn't just "non white" either. Belarus and Georgia and Ukraine were also in the mix with the same remarkable and timely fecundity. Last time I checked they were pale of face. One of the reasons for the 27th getting looked at in the first place was because of an East Asian woman's court case.
It’s still the case today that in an attempt to unseat the absolute unit that is Angela Merkel, the opposition are attempting to appeal to the younger demographic by portraying a narrative promising cultural revolution
Indeed: "conceived in part to help feed the economy's insatiable hunger for skilled labour". Germany's thing that is. Merkel was doing the same. This time there's more of a gloss on it. Bit of a tall order when skilled labour is required and you're dealing with unskilled migrants in many cases. Another twist on the "doctors and engineers" trope. Doctors and engineers have pretty much zero problems with migrating if they chose to.
Ya mean a bs law produce on a whim with no consultation on consequences whatsoever. Ya mean that one. I dont think people in this country signed up to be dictated to by a foreign entity on its own local policies. We voted in on cooperation for mutual benefit not utter long term burden.
Which seems it's all that come with participation of so called unified Europe.
Shure it is
I'm wondering where all the houses O Gorman promised for those in DP are going to be found and I'll bet any money a lot of these 17000 "undocumented" as McEntee prefers to call them will be also adding themselves to the housing list once they avail of this amnesty.
The next few years are going to be interesting seeing how this all plays out.
None of that is to do with this law being introduced.
The EU has placed quotas on Ireland and other countries accepting migrant groups and/or refugees. They've also had many meetings/conferences, that Irish politicians participated in, which covered the "migrant crisis", along with EU desires for integration. There's heaps of initiatives relating to non-EU migrants, planned and decided in Brussels which would have influenced Irish policy.
Ireland, as a member of the EU, is obliged to align with EU policy on migration. Yes, we have our own immigration policies and laws, but it's terribly naive to believe that the EU, as one of the biggest investors in Ireland, wouldn't be able to heavily influence where Irish politicians take us. It's the nature of politics after all. Just look at the reaction to Poland when they decided to become so strict on immigration... I wonder how much investment by the EU was lost by that decision.
It's hardly the whole thread. One or two posters who made those claims, and failed to back up their claims.
Just like your own accusations about my post, which you failed to back up. Not representative of the overall thread. There's a broad selection of posters and posting habits here.
I wanna hear the lefties defend those trying to illegally enter the UK crossing the Channel.
If they were true refugees why aren't they happy in France?
Yeah but this is the point - how narratives are presented and who they’re intended to appeal to. Like when the poster made the point about it being like Where’s Wally to try and spot a woman or child among the men on the boat in that particular photo, and bubblypop’s point was that just because they’re not in that particular photo, doesn’t mean there aren’t as many women and children immigrants as men (of fighting age, etc). In just the same way as the point is often made about the imminent threat to society posed by illegal immigrants.
When that’s not enough, tropes like suicide bombers are brought up (as though we should be suspicions of anyone in a burqa, etc), and every thread regarding mass killings in Europe and the US draws the same people salivating at the thoughts of using it as another opportunity to demonstrate how immigrants way of life is incompatible with our own culture and to portray immigrants as a threat to society.
Are the handful of people who commit these acts representative of the nearly one and a half million immigrants into Germany, as opposed of the handful of men who have sunk to prostituting themselves in order to survive? It depends upon the narrative one wants to portray to their intended audience. If 30% of your audience already perceive the country is being overrun with immigrants, your efforts to portray immigrants as a threat to society becomes a whole lot easier.
Merkel is in the same position as a lot of European leaders right now - their policies in encouraging using immigrants as a form of cheap labour are what led to their countries economic prosperity, and now those immigrants won’t just piss off after they’ve contributed to the countries economic prosperity, the people who have enjoyed the fruits of immigrants labour, are getting a bit tetchy because they perceive immigrants as wanting to share in their economic prosperity, and they’re not having it. It would be unfair, apparently - a consideration that didn’t seem to bother them when immigrants weren’t so visible in civilised society.
By referring to the one vote we got to cast in 25 years that sent a clear message, I know you’re not referring to the referendum on the 8th amendment where the tragic circumstances of the death of a conventionally attractive, wealthy, well-educated immigrant were used as though she was the poster woman for a campaign to repeal the 8th amendment. You’re referring of course to the vote in which there was a campaign to capitalise on the sentiment that immigrant women were getting pregnant to have their anchor babies in Ireland in order to stay here and avail of our generous welfare supports, at a time when Western economies had just come crashing back down to reality following the all fur coat and no knickers years.
Do I imagine that 25 years later, people who weren’t even born then will share the same sentiments towards immigrants as Irish society then when immigrants who didn’t look like them were something of a novelty in Irish society? It’s difficult to call it one way or the other tbh. No doubt the same tropes about anchor babies would be rolled out, but I reckon identity politics and virtue signalling on social media would be a greater factor in influencing the vote.
That narrative is unlikely to appeal to people who consider themselves among “the squeezed middle” demographic who imagine the Irish society they know is in decline. That same sentiment has been expressed by many people in this thread already and the same sentiments which made Thilo Sarrazin a household name in Germany in 2010. At the time he was a member of the SPD party, CDU’s main political opposition. It’s safe to say he was attempting to capitalise on Germany’s anti-immigration sentiment for his own personal and political gain (Peter Casey style) -
The extreme wariness of Muslims toward the census cannot be dissociated from the general context. The census was conducted in social waters recently roiled by the August 2010 publication of Thilo Sarrazin’s polemic essay, Deutschland schafft sich ab (Germany is doing itself in). Sarrazin, a member of the SPD, head of the Berlin Senate’s finance committee and later on the board of directors of the Bundesbank, sharply accused Muslim immigrants as a whole of not wishing to integrate, inordinately burdening social welfare system finances and “downgrading [Germany’s] human capital.”
It’s still the case today that in an attempt to unseat the absolute unit that is Angela Merkel, the opposition are attempting to appeal to the younger demographic by portraying a narrative promising cultural revolution -
The phrase “Vorsprung durch Technik” comes to mind. Ironically enough, it wasn’t a German who popularised that narrative of German engineering, but a Brit -
The same narrative portrayal of immigrants that swung a vote 25 years ago at a time when people were resentful of the handful of immigrants who they could point fingers at as being responsible for the ruination of the economy, is unlikely to be as influential in todays society where it’s considerably more difficult to portray immigrants as being a threat to society given that they’re more visible in Irish society and people’s perceptions and experiences vary considerably, making it difficult for people who wish to portray immigrants as a threat to society - a narrative which most people simply aren’t able to relate to. It’s a narrative which only appeals to a tiny minority in Irish society.
This is just Conor McGregor fairy story stuff. The government bought these new laws in because groups representing migrants and refugees asked them to for over 10 years. The EU stuff is absolute nonsense.
Serbs were headliners? They committed mass murders, genocides.
Of course there were violence on both sides, that is what war is. I'm not sure what you're trying to say about knowing Croatian and Serbian people? I have met plenty myself. I'm hardly suggesting that they are personally responsible? I was merely trying to point out how it makes sense sometimes that men and boys are the ones to leave the warzone.
What you are missing is the tit for tat violence that also went on. While the Serbs were headliners when it came to mass murder and ethnic cleansing, the other armed parties,particularly the Croatian HVO were notorious killers and the various Bosnian armed factions did the same. Hundreds of thousands of people fled Yugoslavia when it kicked off,as the warning signs were quite evident,from all sides and dispersed themselves around Europe. Any Serbs or Croats that Ive ever met in Ireland generally keep the head down,don't make waves and do a good job. I work with a very good Croatian tech and he's an asset to our country. that's the kind of people I'm happy to have in the country. Not liars. We're already fully stocked with liars.
So more stories of people being refused entry. Seems pretty good control.
Customs don't have anything to do with immigration, except perhaps finding stowaways trying to get in.
She was caught because of her own mistake and she tried it on with a sequence of lies. Correctly,she was thrown out. If she had done it correctly, she'd have been in,legally, as Irish people are expected to do when they visit HK and mainland China. I also saw two other similar instances, one a Dutch citizen and the other a South African and both were caught on lies, when the legal route was open to them. Both were shipped out. The South African decided to assault a GardaI as he was being put aboard our aircraft and he was subsequently exported in handcuffs. that's the kind of stuff that doesnt make the papers. I have no problem with anyone coming here, as long as they do it legally. We are expected to do the same when we go abroad, so everyone should play fair. I still maintain that our borders are porous,even though DAP is well handled but,as I have shown,it's not perfect. You should ask Customs and Gardai about our ports,some time.
No because it cant be proven just like the convey- zappone gig but we all know cronyism and jobs for the boys n girls is there now dont we?
Not one person dragging the EU into this discussion has a valid point to make. The Irish government decided themselves to do change the law. The EU didnt ask and didnt force.
Ah sure
If you believe this thread Alan Shatter had an amnestly for 80,000 in 2012, theres 250,000 extra migrants in the country that were only just discovered and the EU pushed the Irish government to change these laws. Its full of disinformation that isnt true.
During the wars in the former Yugoslavia countries, the Serbian forces gathered the populations of various villages and small towns in one local large town.
In this town they then placed the females and younger children into buildings, robbed them, often raped them, but did not kill them. They took all the males, from teenagers upwards and murdered them all, usually by shooting, with those males either lined up execution style, or bundled together in a crowd, in a small enclosure.
would you honestly blame any of the people in those countries for trying to get their male relations to leave the country?
By telling us a story of a woman who arrived in an aeroplane, with no passport, who was legally allowed to be here, and would have been stopped without a passport if she didn't claim asylum?
and then you tell us how gardai and customs catch these people regularly. Seems pretty good border control?
It disproves the notion that are borders are tightly controlled.
Examples include Germans sacrificing their lives for time, time for the women and children to get away from the advancing red army in Prussia and Courland, Time to get to Western lines. Fighting even after the official surrender, fighting with no hope of survival while allowing as many women and children to cross rivers etc. in modern times there is talk of fighting approaching your village, the next morning, the women and children and elderly wake up to find every young man has hightailed it out of there leaving them to face the likes of Isis or Government forces alone
edit not supporting Nazis etc. just using as example. similar stories of Red Army soldiers doing the same during German invasion etc
The whole point of direct provision is to make it not a nice place to stay thus discouraging chances from the 3rd world travelling through a dozen safe countires to get here.
I have no idea what this is supposed to prove?
Our borders are like a sieve. As long as you can make it to Northern Ireland,you can effortlessly cross into the South and disappear. Irish people have been doing it for decades. Don't forget the Asian guy who was importing people via Dublin Airport. He wasn't alone and he won't be the last. Our ports and harbours are virtually all unmonitored outside of the big ones. There isn't a port in the world that is truly airtight to unwanted visitors. Let me give you an anecdote from an event that I personally encountered in Dublin Airport. A Hong Kong Chinese woman turned up at the Garda checkpoint in T2 and said she wanted political asylum, in very broken English. It was soon established that she had come from London,having flown there direct from Hong Kong.. I was dealing with the aircraft she had arrived in on and a Supervisor arrived and asked that the toilet be serviced. It was going to be, anyway, but he said that she had admitted tearing up her passport and flushing it. So,the service guy turned up and drained the toilet tank. In the filter was a torn up HK passport.It was soon reassembled, shown to her and she came clean and then she suddenly regained fluent command of English and was mortified to find that she could have arrived perfectly legally to Ireland with no visa. Back to London she went. This kind of stuff goes on the whole time and the Customs and Gardai catch a lot of it. The bottom line is that people think we are a soft touch and McEntee just made it easier.
Tragic and emotive stuff alright but a couple of dozen migrants working as sex workers in a German park are hardly representative of the nearly one and half million migrants into the EU since 2011 are they? There's enough poor native Germans at it too. Germany are a good example of how not to do things and they have previous in this too. They brought in a load of Turkish men and women to drive their economic miracle and then left them in the wind until quite recently. Merkel opened Germany's arms to migrants, a decision she subsequently regretted and has described German multiculturalism as an utter failure.(that's a BBC link from 2010 lest some are afraid of clicking into an alt right site). The same link noted 30% of Germans thought their country is "overrun" and thought that most are there for the benefits and that was ten years ago, before the big influx really kicked off. A more recent survey from 2016(PDF) showed Europeans fearing more terrorism on the back of migration and one from 2017 had a majority of those surveyed said yes to stopping all futher migration from Muslim countries in particular. The more existing migrant populations the more the resistance to any more. And none of those have had a chance to vote on it either way. Just like the Irish electorate regarding our massive change in Irish demographics over the last 25 years. Well, there was that one vote we got to cast and it sent a pretty clear message.
Re one eyed jack.....use duck duck go.......there's no tracking in that search engine.
Yep keep running from problems. If the irish done that we would still be under the brits rule.
The funny thing the same people would scream persecution and racism at the top of there lungs here but wont stand up for themselves in their homeland.
All these people banned....having an opinion is not racist..how many came here of their own free will or were the government's involved in their dispersement in one way or another..how many made it to the UK and filtered over to Ireland because the social welfare system is better here...I'd like to say that most people from other countries never wanted to come here in the first place...the food is different,the weather is different,the people are different...they just had no choice.the would much prefer to stay in the place they were born if it were not for persecution and killings ect...if the west stopped getting involved in matters that don't concern them in the east...maby there would be some harmony in the world.
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