But maybe it's a load of brown people partaking in some recreational boating. Why should they be stopped by the French police? Its not illegal.
Would it be acceptable to stop people from going to the water off Brighton?
Britain should bolster search and rescue along the English Channel. Seems to be a lot of unfortunate incidents occurring in their waters.
Is there? The only unfortunate incident of late was in French waters. the British seem to be the ones sending out the RNLI, coast guard and border force to help people off these boats ans bring them to dry land
heaven forbid the French should get any sort of blame though.
That’s exactly what is happening now and is clearly putting people’s lives at risk, so isn’t really a sustainable situation.
Why would the French go into British waters to rescue people?
I don't understand what you expect from the French. Recreational boating is not illegal and you can't expect the French to go into British waters when trouble arises.
France did not foister Brexit on the UK. They did that themselves.
250 rescued in multiple incidents on 20th November France rescues nearly 250 migrants in English Channel | Reuters
Over 200 rescued on 9th November in 7 separate incidents France rescues more than 200 migrants in Channel - InfoMigrants
340 rescued in a weekend in October, including 124 who were in the water France rescues more than 340 UK-bound migrants in English Channel | Euronews
edit : Interestingly, it's not easy to get UK newspaper links for these. But doesn't look as if the French equivalent of RNLI, coast guard and border force are doing quite as little as you suggest.
What do you mean 'the British'? The RNLI are a charity and will head out of their own volition. The knuckle draggers in Hastings will try to stop them
Are the RNLI not British then? Or is British a term only reserved for the unionist bad boys?
the border force and coast guard cutters are also doing patrols and picking people up.
good to know the French are also doing their job and saving lives in the channel.
there seems to be an awful lot of people going out for pleasure trips and getting in to trouble. It’s almost as if there is more to this than a few folk looking to get a bit of boating in.
Old Bexley and Sidcup by election result due in a few hours. Former seat of the late James Brokenshire, tories in little danger of losing it but only a 34% turn out apparently so obviously a fair bit of apathy there. Will be interesting to see how much their majority is reduced by.
But your solution seems to be "more of exactly what is happening now, please".
Think this through. The rise in asylum seekers attempting channel crossing by boat is the outcome of three factors:
The upshot is that, to seek protection in the UK, you have to go there and the small boat crossing is the only viable way of getting there. So the rise in small boat crossings is very much the foreseeable response to UK government policy.
So, if you're bothered by the rise in small boat crossings and you don't think current situation is sustainable , you have to change the policies that produce the current situation. There are various things you can do — some unilaterally, others requiring international co-operation. Whether intentionally or through gross stupidity, the government is working hard to ensure that they won't be able to arrive at an internationally co-operative solution, so that narrows their options somewhat. In particular, it rules out returning those seeking protection to France, because that can only be done with the agreement of France.
Still, on the bright side, narrowing the options may not be a bad thing, since it simplifies the decision tree. The question becomes, what changes can the UK, acting unilaterally, make to address this problem? And all the answers are variants on "establish mechanisms by which people can seek protection in the UK that don't involve risking their lives in channel crossings". That could be by issuing visas to enter the UK for the purpose, or it could be by accepting and dealing with protection applications through UK embassies in other countries.
It's just more of the same. The UK has a problem and it wants everyone else to bend over backwards to solve it. And then it actually happens to some extent but then they shlt all over it.
Thousands of people living in make shift camps in northern France is the UK’s problem?
people drowning off the coast of Calais is the UK’s problem?
that’s a stupid comment.
The British don't give a toss about those living in camps or drowning in the sea, not sure why you brought up those issues. The problem for the British is those that arrive in their shores.
If every single attempted crossing results in drowning, that would suit the UK just fine. As long as migrants did not arrive in British waters. Hence the proposal to push boats back, back to either drown or back to make shift tents.
Wait, so all of this is about the UK's outrage at how France is handling an internal matter?
If it is not the UK's problem when the issues arise in France, then it is likewise not France's problem when the issues arise in the UK.
Well, the UK thinks its their problem; that's why they object to the camps and want them dismantled.
And of course it is their problem. People are camping in northern France because they hope to go to the UK, and they are drowning in the English channel because they are trying to go to the UK. And people going to the UK is obviously an issue for the UK. I'm old enough to remember that taking back "control" of the border was one of the major selling points of Brexit, for which a majority voted, so your view that this is no concern of the UK's seems likely to be a minority one.
The French have also cited the UK's labour market as part of the problem, in that working off the books is too common there and attracting people. It would be interesting to find out if there is some overlap with the HGV driver shortage.
Very unlikely. Ninety-something percent of those who come by boat apply for protection as refugees within hours of arrival, which is pretty much the last thing you would do if you hope to work off the books.
it clearly seems to be a joint problem then. which therefore makes the comment
The UK has a problem and it wants everyone else to bend over backwards to solve it
somewhat trite, do you not agree?
and yet the Coastguard, Border Force and RNLI are picking up boats daily.
that seems somewhat odd for a country that would be quite happy to see people die, do you notthink?
Are we confident the two are mutually exclusive? Would it be possible to claim asylum AND work off the books?
It's possible to be anything and work off the books. Plenty of British and Irish doing it over there
Ok, but let's be clear where we are at the moment. All states have a duty to rescue people who might be in trouble off their coasts. That is simple international maritime law. As already mentioned, however, the British government is currently passing a bill that will give officials the right to bypass those laws and turn those boats back, by force if they deem it appropriate. Initially, that bill also threatened to criminalise the RNLI and others who went to the aid of asylum seekers, but such is the popularity of the service, that the government has had to clarify it is exempt from the bill. Which just goes to show how silly this is - if an ordinary punter goes to help someone onto the beach they are liable for prosecution and a criminal record but not if they are RNLI. How does that even begin to make sense?
You'd be forgiven for getting confused about what exactly the UK wants. We were told that one of the reasons for Brexit was taking back sole control of immigration. Now they seem to want collective responsibility again. What is it?
The tories retain Old Bexley and Sidcup but with a majority of just over 4,000, down from in excess of 19,000. Probably not as bad a result as it seems, though, as the swing to labour was just over 10% which is below the average for by elections. Richard Tice took some of that majority with 6.6% of the vote. The Tories still managed over 50% on a very low turn out.
I'm thinking that the working under the table possibility is attractive to asylum seekers.
Get to the UK, apply for asylum and in the meantime, take up work off the books. If the asylum application is successful, grand, go out and get a job above board, if not then reassess. If the labour market tolerates working under the table then there will be willing workers economically desperate enough to do it. This isn't something the EU and France can solve for them.
Good god the turnout for that by-election is abyssmal, it baffles me how people can be so unengaged.
There are so many safe seats in the UK it sometimes feels like it's not worth it. I always voted but I always knew the candidate I voted for didn't really need it in the 20k+ Labour strongholds I lived in.
The only real story today is Labour have gained 10.3% on last time and the majority is slashed from 19k to 4k.
The Tories can take that hit in Old Bexley but it will have a lot of swing constituency MPs sweating
I suppose it's December, was a pretty inclement day yesterday, and I suspect quite a bit of the traditional conservative vote decided to stay at home. By way of comparison, the turnout was only very marginally lower than the Dublin Bay South by election that elected Ivana Bacik earlier this year.
the UK is reducing those in danger. always has done, always will do.
Why shouldn't a border protection vessel deny entry to a boat if it is appropriate? Just because a border is along a sea, it is still a border. If that boat is dangerously packed full of people and likely to sink, then it isn't appropriate and those people will be helped. The Border force aren't a taxi service though, the clue is in the name.
The clarification bit was because people got stupid about a piece of legislation that isn't actually changing. If people are applying for Asylum, then they need to do so at the border and if you knowingly bring someone in to the country who you know will be claiming asylum, then you are committing an offence.
The RNLI are effectively handing people over to the Border Force officers, so they are not committing an offence, as those people have not entered the country, as such.
So to sum up "the English a great bunch of lads" which is practically what you say to everything on this thread.
I don't think I have ever met someone swayed by the we are doing it for their own good rubbish. These people know the risks and are willing to die to cross so I don't think the UK making it harder is going to deter them. This isn't people coming over because they hear there are jobs going in M&S these are desperate people
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