United Ireland Poll - please vote

After a successful UI vote, all the big players are on the same side. Government of Ireland, British government, PSNI, AGS, British intelligence services, British army, Irish army etc etc. All resources there to give effect to the constitutional change. Unionist violence in that scenario is not possible.

The British government are now, to use an old phrase, to become the persuaders. Their task is to deliver their Loyalists proxies peacefully. That is the way it will go down. The USA will have Ireland's back and hold British feet to that fire.

The rest of your post is just off the mark. I don't give a fiddlers about the flag or the anthem, nor am I in any way attached to AGS. Heck they should be dissolved if I had my way.

I find it kinda hilarious in some way that when the controversy about the founding of NI was taking place, we had plenty of armchair republicans puff out their chests and proclaim how proud they were of their president....

.... yet the same president calls out the insanity of segregated education in the North... and the same armchair Republicans go... 'Look! Over There!!'

Who indeed. Bigots on both sides I guess who want to keep the divide going for basic political purposes. We can see it on this very thread!

Loyalist paramilitaries are known to British Intelligence services. There will be a lot of eyes on NI around a UI referendum and thereafter. Any violence that occurs from those quarters is a British responsibility, and they will know that.

Oh, as I said already, the DUP and SF are the two sides of the same sectarian coin that are preserving the sectarian education system. They have been called out for it in the Assembly by the Greens, the SDLP and the Alliance.

Change is coming to Northern Ireland, just not the change that Sinn Fein or the DUP expect.

That suits me; I've lived in both. Grew up in the North, married and settled, 'down south', so clearly everyone should just defer to me.

Jokes aside, to actually address your point; if a bloke from North Antrim who had spent a few hours in Drogheda once five years ago started telling someone in Dublin how they should vote and patronisingly insisting that they just don't understand what it is like in Ireland, I'd happily call that out too.

Those arguing against, 'exclusionary Nationalism' are arguing against a strawman of their own creation, and ironically some have demonstrated a more exclusionary mentality than that they profess to be arguing against. Many Nationalists may well be unable to put themselves in the shoes of Unionists, but indeed many Nationalists (particularly those from NI) understand Unionism much better than those arguing on this thread who have never actually had a conversation with a typical middle class border county Unionist, let alone a hardline Loyalist from East Belfast.

If in a United Ireland, the roles were simply reversed with regards to how the CNR community were treated upon the foundation of NI, I would vote against it. Pretending that anyone is arguing in favour of that is just another strawman. A handful of armchair Republicans in a pub shouting about how they'll take the flag and anthem from their cold dead hands are hardly representative of typical views. I fully accept the need to compromise and show outreach.

If asked would I like to give up the flag/anthem in a poll, I'd answer no and you'd point to it as evidence that I'm unwilling to compromise, but despite not liking the idea of giving up the flag/anthem, I'd be entirely willing to do so if it made it easier for a significant minority in our new country. What I won't countenance is the professed ideas on here about a return to a Unionist veto on how we progress as a country, which is precisely what another poster on this thread has repeatedly suggested (and was probably the source of most of my sarcastic ire).

This. A 1000 times this. As a "unionist" who now desires a united Ireland myself, it can only be done by persuasion. Trying to force (the "like it or lump it" policy) will not work, because Unionists are past masters at being stubborn when cornered. Half the battle is persuading current moderate Unionists that they are wanted in a UI, and tbh sometimes even on here I see very little of that.

There's nothing new in any of that, these are topics discussed decades ago. Perhaps you are not familiar with the Eire Nua document.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C3%89ire_Nua

Yes, it was in their 2016 manifesto. This comment on it is revealing:

"The SDLP’s view is that the current DUP/Sinn Fein ‘Shared’ education model does not go far enough"

Both telling in that it confirms that SDLP want more reform than SF, and that there are shared interests and goals on education between the DUP and SF.

Partition was inevitable once nationalists wouldn't settle for Home Rule.

Tackle education first, bring the next generation of young Northern Irish people to a common understanding of each other and heal division.

No, that's not what I said, in fact, it is the opposite of what I have said. The SDLP do want to change things. Here is another academic perspective:

"Ultimately, segregated education maintains education systems for both sides of the community meaning their identities are protected. For the DUP and Sinn Fein, this suits their main aim of protecting their own political and national identities as both believe that an integrated education system would erode this. Out of fear, which is something that unites both parties, our education system remains segregated."

"To summarize the parties, the Alliance party is clearly the most supportive of integrated education, followed by the UUP as seen by both parties developing significant policies on the concept in their manifestos. The SDLP remains somewhere in the middle on this policy, with a change in policy for supporting integrated education in 2016 but are not very vocal in their support for it when implementing manifesto pledges. The DUP hasn’t changed their policy substantially, but have moved to support shared education and some high ranking party members have spoken out in favour of implementing integrated education. Sinn Fein ranks at the bottom with no significant policy support for integrated education and their actions when holding the Education ministry failed on encouraging integrated education."

You know, that article pretty much agrees with everything I have posted on the issue. Sinn Fein's fear, as manifesting itself in the panicked responses to my consistent posting, is concentrating on the look over there defensive position.

Eh, that reference was to 100 years ago. Still wallowing in the injustices of 100 years ago, and using them to justify sectarian practices today. Sorry, don't buy that.

The second part of your post shows SF and the DUP to be populist followers of the loudest people, not something I disagree with, but I expect more from my politicians.

It's not that they don't have a strong policy on it, they do. They actively oppose it, as does the DUP.

Out of curiosity i searched out Sinn Fein's position on integrated education.

Copy and paste below from https://www.sinnfein.ie/contents/16324

In a nutshell, they support it! The problem they have is about curriculum. They are correct that such would be defined by Britain to the exclusion of an Irish pov.

Integrated Education

As we said earlier, Sinn Féin believes in secular education and in multi-denominational schools. However, we be-lieve it would be mistaken to confuse these norms with how the British government handles integrated education in the Six Counties. We have no quarrel whatever with those parents who choose to send their children to these schools, nor with those teachers who teach in them. They do so for the best of reasons. We can see some advan-tages and we are in favour of their being there as an option for parents.

We would like to see the same resources now being given to integrated schools also being given to Irish language-medium schools.

Central to any discussion of integrated education in Ire-land, and indeed of education generally, is the issue of the curriculum: the assumptions underlying it, who controls it and its goals. A shared curriculum must acknowledge our common Irishness and celebrate the diversity which enriches us all.

The past absence of Irish history teaching and the ban-ning and neglect of the Irish language in the school cur-riculum has been at least as responsible for contributing to the problems of society in the North as the absence of integrated education. One of the reasons for the support for the Catholic Maintained Sector in nationalist areas is the fact that, historically, the authorities in the North tried to turn education into a weapon which reinforces the 'Britishness' of the State.

The right-wing educational ethos of the British authorities, which is based on elitism and privilege, is anathema to the vast majority of teachers on this island, North and South.

Would it not make sense to integrate the two state-systems of education on this island, as part of the process of bringing about true integration?

A document from 1995!!!!!

Come on, you can do better than that, if they really truly support it, and when every academic study says they don't. Show us something that they have done since their pious words in a submission to a forum in 1995.