Just got this in a forwarded post, looks like morning rush hour chaos looming for the 24th.
https://www.facebook.com/Irish-Truckers-Haulage-Association-Against-Fuel-Prices-105854695208835/
So in summary, plantlife and mega fauna...sounds great. So from the planets point of view its awesome, how about us humans?
Oh and bonus question, how long before the earth spanning forests arrive and the mega-fauna evolve? What happens in the interim?
Where do all the people live and get their food & water from?
A major haulier I know lowers the rate they pay to subcontractors when the fuel price goes down so the subcontractor never sees the benefit of it, they also higher the rate paid with rising fuel costs but not as much as the cut! Long story short; the big hauliers always make money, it’s the smaller crowds and owner drivers that suffer the most and that’s who was in the protest
Earth spanning forrests; so much abundant food you have mega fauna to eat it. Photosynthesis increases with temperature, and the optimum just happens to be around 23°C, so plants thrive if there is enough CO2, and that was clearly the case, and there used to be far more in the atmosphere than the current exceedingly low levels.
If the gulf stream stops, it gets colder, not hotter, which is what I think is about to happen. CO2 levels and temperature both rise suddenly just before a glaciation even kicks off. Funny, that.
"life" is a bit generic, care to elaborate no what life you mean?
A planet of plankton for example is life thriving but not great for the rest of us.
And thats before you even talk about the other effects...such as no more Gulf Stream, massively reduced fresh water supplies, earth rotation slows down, oh and a lot less land available...where do these people live?
1.5°, 2°? Try 6°, which is about the increase to get to the normal annual average temperature for the planet. Of course the ice caps disappear completely, but that too is the norm. Life on earth thrives at that temperature and higher levels of CO2, that's why we have oil and coal deposits. Extinction is not on the cards.
Erm, I don't even know where to start with this one to be honest.
The polar icecaps arent blocks of ice sitting on a table.
Hopefully there is some reading in your future, ideally before posting again...
/edit
Here is a free starter for you.
https://www.amnh.org/explore/ology/earth/ask-a-scientist-about-our-environment/will-the-world-ever-be-all-under-water
That's not the same thing.
What do you mean 2 will have a bigger impact on the world than 1.5 would?
If I have a block of ice and the room is at 2 degrees the ice might take 2 hours to melt. If the room is at 1.5 degrees it might take 2.5 hours to melt. The end result is the same, just takes longer.
If they want change then they have to get the voting public on their side because that’s the only way to put pressure on the government. They only care about votes. These moronic protests just piss everyone off and turn the hauliers into the bad guys and so it’s very very easy for the government to simply ignore this or join in denouncing them. It’s brain dead behaviour that won’t achieve anything.
That's like saying sure there is no point in living as you are going to die anyway!
2* will have a much bigger impact on the world, including Ireland than 1.5* would.
They are trying to limit it as its no longer possible to stop it, mostly because certain people refuse to acknowledge it and the real world changes that need to happen.
Can anyone link me to the stories about when the hauliers dropped their prices when the global fuel costs were lower than their supposed multi year contracts?
For some reason I cant seem to find them...
that is what the government are trying to do.
level the playing field so that people can move over to more efficiently powered vehicles.
changes are coming whether we want them or not and the old ways you want to keep are going as they are unviable.
I note that AGS issued a statement saying they were "disappointed" at the lack of engagement by the protest organisers.
If there is a Round 2 in December maybe the book will come out.
Consumers don't ever have choice only the illusion of choice. If the petrol engine car is the cheapest to produce then that is all that will be produced - where is the choice there?
Just level the playing field is a simplistic nonsense argument against regulation. Libertarian bollocks really. Allow hormone beef and let consumers choose you say - very soon the market gets flooded with hormone beef so there is no real world choice for anyone.
The manufacturers have nothing to do with Irish fuel excise policy. The Greens, EPA and government messed up badly and are not to be trusted in their pronouncements or policies. Just level the playing field and let consumers choose what they want.
take it up with the manufacturers.
You are both missing the point. Dieselgate has nothing whatsoever to do with it. I was highlighting that it has been known since 1997 that diesel emissions contain an extremely potent carcinogen. I wasn't mainly referring to Nox. Anyway, the fudged Nox emissions from diesels were still higher than for petrol at the time; that they were actually even worse than what was thought is near irrelevant, as even the faked numbers were worse.
What has this got to do with a fuel protest? A fuel protest that is the result of the wholesale price of oil rising rapidly, and not really anything else.
So the next protest is going to be the biggest the country has ever seen I see they have said. Probably wait till the new year for this one so they can get the 221 Regs out ! Like the farmers the other week, all crying that there is no money in it (and to be fair they are getting rode on things like milk and factory prices) but driving tractors around Dublin ain't going to get them anywhere esp when people see that alot of them tractors are worth over 100k new, the trucks were the same, look at the 212 regs etc... there. To give a context on a price, I contacted the local Scania dealer in May about a new truck, heres what he quoted me :
"Thank you for your interest in a new Scania 6x2 tractor unit. After our meeting the other day, we are happy to offer you the following for your consideration.
The Price of €161,500 includes 2 years repairs & maintenance and 3 additional visor lights. Auto greaser is €1,500 extra.
All prices are subject to Vat."
All that to pull a trailer for a company in Meath for €1 a KM, No deal was done as who could justify that?, fuel is the least of my worries at them rates.
but all infrastructure projects in Dublin are now on indefinite hold and may never happen.
1.5 c. explained.
https://www.ipcc.ch/sr15/
The fault lies with the car manufacturers and not the Greens. Amazed that people in Ireland blame a political party.
I can certainly blame the Greens for being so naive and gullible. But they ideologically oppose nuclear power, so they're not interested in science, just feels.
I can blame them for bringing in "chape tax" on big Mercs and BMWs, while owners of small, efficient and CLEAN petrol cars got totally screwed on the cc tax system - and still do!
Cycling isn't the answer unless you're rich enough to live in the inner suburbs of Dublin. Everyone else needs good public transport - but all infrastructure projects in Dublin are now on indefinite hold and may never happen.
Great bunch of lads... did we not learn from their shenanigans over ministerial pensions when they were propping up FF while the country fell apart?
the reality is doing nothing will mean that on multiples of the scale, costing multiples of the money to deal with, causing multiples of the problem.
Let me be clear I support everyone in the supply chain given that there is a pandemic and a chaotic transition to a net0 future.
I agree switching from petrol to diesel was lunacy in part based on fraud like diesel-gate. The point I was making was a shift away from fossil fuels completely should have started in 1992. Again I agree in any way allowing a climate-based goal to justify a move from petrol to diesel was if you accept they believed the diesel-gate lies a useless gesture and for anyone who knew about the true emissions a massive fraud and abuse of public trust.
In a representative democracy, I would like to think the people could protest high fuel prices and the government would know this is a reaction to an acute short term impact and not a statement that they can burn the planet. I would like to think our representatives would know lowering them in the long term when ICE engines will be banned is not a solution even if they do offer temporary relief now it needs to be part of a longer-term plan to transition away from fossil fuels. I just don't have that faith in our representative's ability to balance this given that the majority was so thin they nearly had an existential crisis and when the pandemic happened and they were popular after a decent early response they forgot about addressing the issues that led to that. I think we need to ask for something in the same ballpark as a long-term solution upon which campaigners for a green economy and hauliers can agree. I know finding that solution is the job of ministers and TD's again I just think if the issue is brought to them as you need to fix climate change and reduce fuel prices they may have a failure of imagination in finding a solution.
I understand that the USA and China are required to fully sort out the emissions component of climate change but they will join in when enough other countries show it is possible and the USA being back at the table after the trump years sadly counts as progress. the EU as a whole and Ireland in particular as an economy based in Hi-Tech service jobs and quite a lot of agriculture has a lot to gain by being the providers of sustainable technology and expertise and it is doable. We managed to ban CFC's eventually. Given the impact, if we don't sort out greenhouse gasses I think once someone shows the way the world will meet this challenge. Right now that would be Norway and Iceland we don't want to miss this opportunity to lead.
So to our current state, the current % of the cost of a litre of fuel that is tax is very similar to what it has always been. The tone-deaf timing of the slow increases in carbon pricing (a way of making the market find a better way that does work if done sensitively) at the same time OPEC is holding the worlds oil supply to ransom and making the truckers protest before engaging when the IRHA had already said after Christmas they may protest is buffoonery of the highest order. A solution that achieves both climate goals and helps people maybe something like when the oil price goes over a certain threshold as compared with historic pricing, an enhanced rebate is made payable to all quarterly and a greater rebate payable as a grant towards a hybrid or fully electric vehicle for businesses along with a topping up of funds for private car grants for electric. Both to help people cope with the cost and try to find a solution for the long term. The government can't control OPEC and once a tax is taken off fuel it may never go back on also if it does the cost of taking it off and putting it back on given the way government IT and fuel stations are set up may mean people don't actually see the reduction in price they need.
If we can find a way to ask the government to help people with the transition and tackle climate change we can combine the campaigns and they might notice for more than a day.
That because the large super stores have pushed the price of milk down. This has pushed the small farmer out of the market and now only the bigger farmers can make a profit.
It's the same across the board, the price has stayed the same but the margin has increased for the store/distribution and reduced for the farmer. Of course distribution will make the excuse that diesel has increased in cost but the profit margins these companies make would suggest not
The funny thing is they're not even trying to stop climate change, just limit it to 1.5 degrees per year or something. So all this heartache and the cities are going to be underwater and the ice caps disappeared anyways
Its marginally cheaper actually.
Dunnes Stores were selling a litre of milk for 56p (71c) in February 1994. That was the cheapest available anywhere at the time and caused lots of complaints from farmers/dairies about below cost selling
Aldi's own-brand milk now is 67c a litre in its cheapest form (3L jug). This is also below cost selling I suspect.
71c inflated from Feb 94 to Oct 21 would be 117c now.
The Greens and loads of other countries in the World took the advice from experts. What the greens and other countries didn't know was car manufacturers lied and actually made illegal devices to fool the system into thinking the car are cleaner than they are.
The fault lies with the car manufacturers and not the Greens. Amazed that people in Ireland blame a political party. Look at what happened in the US, was the class action from VW owners against the government or the car manufacturer? plus VW was just the tip of the ice berg, what happened since was all car manufacturers had the same thing going on.
Also the plan for the diesels was to reduce tax on newer cars. So tax on a 1.6TDci Mondeo was 700 euro in 2007 and it was 333 in 2008 because it was supposed to be cleaner. What the greens and nobody could expect was the Irish people throwing away good cars to get cheap tax. Paying thousands of euro's to upgrade the car to reduce tax by a couple of hundred a year.
Even recently with all the problems with diesel Ireland had truck loads of cars comign from the UK, all diesel, over to Ireland beause they couldn't sell them in the UK. Yet the Irish person bought them up. Crazy stuff going on/
I am not against the hauliers by the way, I think slowing traffic in Dublin is a stupid way to protest and in reality the hauliers issues is not with the government but with the population who are driving around a diesel car in the city centre of Dublin
the greens encouraged diesel cars based on evidence that turned out to be untrue, that was not the fault of the greens but manufacturers.
carbon taxes work because they encourage shifts to more efficient foorms of power, we already know this because it did it with diesel dispite the later findings meaning we should have stayed with petrol.
the government understand the science, it is why we are going down the route we are, because in the long run it will be cheaper to start now to clean up.
the hauliers are not going to get what they want because they have always known diesel prices would go up and the prices are now down to the whole sale price, so like the rest of us they are going to have to plan ahead and look at their options, hedge against fuel prices in the mean time and just put up the prices where needed which will be unpopular but ultimately necessary as they have been operating on unsustainable margines for a long time now.
your argument falls down on the fact that regardless of what america and others do or don't do, the facts and evidence don't change and the effects don't just go away for the rest of us.
so even if america and china do nothing now, their costs of having to deal with the effects of climate change will be multiples of the cost if they dealt with it now, and while they would be struggling under the effects and the costs, ireland by starting now would be in a better position to deal with the effects that will come.
the effects are unavoidable, but being in a better position to deal with them via starting now, + the benefits of cleaner air, more efficient use of everything, will not just make a huge difference to ireland, but will ultimately save money and bring down costs long term.
it is the do nothing cause china nonsense, that is a waste of time, and that would ultimately bankrupt ireland and irreparably damage it.
i read a claim that the price of a litre of milk is the same now as it was in the mid 90s; i.e. there has been no inflation on milk.
i've not been able to fact check that claim though.
