'Its absolutely a possibility some redneck from the local area got wind of the fact she was home alone & chanced his arm after a couple of pints of stout. The question is, was it the self proclaimed poet a good bit down the road, the senior gard who had a thing for foreign women or some local buck. It's doubtful we'll ever know.'
Indeed many areas in the 'West' have large numbers of randy single men on small farms in small villages with little prospects of meeting someone locally as the 'girls' have gone. Some of those would be more that willing to chance their arm. Maybe bring a bottle of good wine along.
It's not only disrespectful, it's complete fiction.
This is how victim blaming happens.
Many areas in the east have them too
True enough. Randy isn't confined to the West.
Randy farmer types are everywhere. The Midlands are probably the worst tbf.
I find it very difficult to believe that it was a randy farmer type however. I think the killer knew Sophie well. The level of violence, particularly to her head and face suggests that this was a very personal murder.
I'm still not convinced it wasn't a woman, honestly. The concrete block rubbish doesn't add up. Any woman that's carried a young child, as all mothers do, would be able to pick that up.
Could be a jealous ragey wifey
Killed by up to 50 blows on a night of a full moon at one of the ancient times of sacrifice the Winter Solstice. Was the day chosen for this reason?
The Ungerers have noted recently
'you have more unusual people coming up. Three men came up the other day, one had his face painted, druidic clothing, 8ft wooden staff, I think they came up to do some ritual.'
I also don't think it was a randy farmer, I mean, it's not impossible, but I'd say, it's highly unlikely.
The way she was killed also doesn't strike me as a classical rage killing. An unplanned rage killing wouldn't justify these numerous blows, an unplanned rage killing would most likely be a single blow and her death would also come as an initial surprise to the killer. He meant to hit her, to scare her, but not to kill her..... As you suggested, it's possibly personal, but I'd say it could also been to send a message, or to let of steam after a lot of built up hate for Sophie.
The jealous wife theory is also something, I've thought about, but I'd say, that one would probably have been an encounter at her doorstep, rather than on the driveway. If she didn't run for her life, she walked there, and was lured there pointing to the idea that she knew the killer.
Oh bloody hell don't add any more weirdos into the mix!
There was enough in the area already that the suspect list should have been vast.
It could have happened at the doorway, an argument at least.
A possible reason I think Sophie was murdered at the gate was that she went to close it after whoever was visiting. Either to be courteous, or because she was angry that they hadn't done it themselves. One thing we do know about Sophie is that she was very particular about the gate being closed
The bloody handprints on the gate are curious. Sophie's blood (it seems) from her hands? or the gloved hands of her killer? Was the gate the cause or was it misdirection?
Could have been Sophies hands, during the struggle. It could have been her body too, as the photos in MATC looked like it was smear type marks than handprints.
Could have been the perp opening the gate to leave too.
"Could have been the perp opening the gate to leave too."
Unlikely, opening that gate would involve handling the latch end , not the top two bars where the bloodstains were.
I'd say it's better to wait for the new results on this case. Didn't they say that police was re-opning the case and looking at evidence which wasn't considered or examined properly back then? - Don't know if DNA is still good after 25 years?
it one of the ancient times of sacrifice the Winter Solstice.
one of the ancient times of sacrifice the Winter Solstice.
it wasn't the winter solstice, which is on 21 December. The murder was 23 December
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-59374981
That was touch transfer dna sample taken at the time and preserved... Im not sure if that approach can be used to reexamine artefacts? Or would it have degraded over time. Hmm.
The human sacrifice/sex deranged beast story is amusing but maybe no more absurd than the fiction made up especially for Bailey. If you can see that, you can easily see that none of the boyos conducting the investigation believed it for a minute either. They made a very hasty conscious decision that he was a fit and it's all there in the missing pages. Most likely they knew he'd never be convicted so no real harm done as far as they were concerned, since he was a violent wife-beating type.
The killer has to have been part of all the activity taking place around the house and his/her unmasking would have created major problems for the powers that be. Had it been Bailey or any other lone operator they'd have had them in a week. The Guards are good at this kind of stuff.
I stand corrected.
Huh??
It's a discussion forum. We discuss the case. That's what we do here 😆
DNA can be recovered even in older cases. See below..
https://www.kiro7.com/news/trending/vegas-police-solve-32-year-old-cold-case-with-smallest-amount-dna-record/O2HUKGLHAFDKBLT2AYHLKUS5QQ/
If the real killer is still alive, he has something to be afraid of.
Maybe he gets nervous and makes a mistake.
I think its a bigger picture..... i.e. rapid advances in forensic capabilities are opening up more possibilities all the time.
What about the blood stain on Sophie's shoe?
While I'm on the subject, one particular claim continues to puzzle me: The hair found grasped in her hand was her own. Its possible, of course, but a bit odd, I think.
"The hair found grasped in her hand was her own. Its possible, of course, but a bit odd, I think."
Anyone with long hair will attest that when their hair is pulled enough to cause discomfort
the reaction is to grab the hair back out of the hands of the assailant.
The only dna of any use would have to come from Sophie.
Dna/fingerprints from the site would not prove anything, unless maybe some was found on
the concrete block laid over Sophie's blood, even then it would be hard to prove anything.
Yes but some of the advances can only work be re-examining evidence that was properly preserved and handled... The UK police did that in the cold cases mentioned by taking samples at the time. Given how fond our lot have been of destroying evidence they deemed to no longer be of value...
Plus some of the objects may not have been handled in a sterile manner (fabrics), so you could have touch DNA on it from people at the scene whose samples you don't have (no longer in AGS) because back then they would have only been worried about blood, fingerprints.
There was a report earlier in the thread that when the boot went for re-examination it was not sealed properly in the bag.
I don't think so. If she was being held by her hair then their skin cells might be on that hair as well as her own. DNA on the block could prove that someone was there (perhaps someone that was said to be elsewhere?). Even glove fibres could be useful and identify the make/country of origin.
It's hard to believe all right, maybe I'm influenced by an account I read lately, albeit from 60 years earlier
about the stitch-up that led to the hanging of Harry Greeson in Tipperary.
These guards didn't even try to bribe a witnesses , they just beat the sh1t of him.
Changed the date of the killing to invalidate his alibi.
Threatened the hardware shop owner until he changed his sales ledger.
The list goes on.
Things have changed a lot more in the last 25 years than they did in the previous 50 or 60 years.
But you're right, you would have expected someone to 'blow the whistle' if not back then, maybe 25 years on.
When you say they were "rattled by one pompous individual" I'd say it was more they were intimidated both physically and intellectually by this "big English bollix"
You could imagine the first questionings, Bailey knowing he had nothing to do with the murder, leading the yokel guards along and playing cat and mouse games.
They couldn't be letting that happen.
Yep, good points.
Really? Have you ever attempted to lift a concrete breeze block above your head and then smash it down to the ground with sufficient force enough to,say, break a human skull to pieces? I have never seen a female blocklayer working on a building site.
LCN was questioned by the judge in the Omagh bombing case
Up to 50 blows first? May indicate someone not able to land a strong decisive blow? Block probably weighed around 20Kg not light but a fit woman could do it.
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