Well yeah, that's what I mean when I say it's impossible to prove
The point is that any of this hearsay 'evidence' would never make it to trial, regardless of how convinced different people are of its veracity. That's not saying that hearsay is not a factor in prosecutions, the conviction of some Limerick criminals proves it is, but that hearsay evidence must be incontrovertible in the context of other indisputable facts (or at least the 'courts' must accept something which unsurprisingly is very much not accepted by some people presently behind bars)
It is relevant because while many "know" and "believe" many do not know/believe as has been said here. So it really has the status of a rumour
You just seem to want to argue with me no matter what I post
I don't know why you define as "wanting to argue with you" the fact that i disagree with you. I don't see any evidence for this garda story
Well, no. Most of the Bailey "confessions" were manipulated in some way, or the person in question was in some trouble with the Gards, or there was personal beef. Not to mention the fear of him that was deliberately instilled into the local community. Not to mention his dark humour.
I think you have to accept that any bent copper deathbed confession is as reliable as a Bailey confession. Useless
And that's relevant how?? What, something only becomes plausible if *everyone* knows?
I've no idea where your going with this whatsoever. You just seem to want to argue with me no matter what I post 🙄
Many local people know about the confession, it's just impossible to prove at this stage.
Many, not all, local people know about the rumour of the confession
I'm beginning to believe, that in all probability, the chances of Marie Farrell and the invisible man driving around the vicinity of the murder scene at 3am that morning, is at best a long shot. (In all probability it didn't happen).
Why do I think this?
Logic really.. One of the most brutal murders in recent Irish history occurred in a sleepy coastal region of West Cork, the national, international, and world press are all over it. The story was white hot.
A witness is found, that reports seeing a figure dressed in black near the crime scene in the early hours of the morning before the body is found.
A witness that was allegedly accompanied by a mystery man that was actually driving the car that night, so must have been paying attention to the road(s), and any night time murderers wandering around at that hour...
Yet the mystery man was never tracked down and interviewed.. The second eye witness to verify the man in the long black coat, simply wasn't followed up.. Really????
If my memory serves me correctly, Farrell went on to give three different names to identify the invisible man, all of whom were already dead.
Now.. That should have been a red flag straight away, the bells should be deafening... In fact, Big Ben would be quiet in comparison...
Yet the Gards made her their star witness?? In fact, the case was underpinned by her revelation.
Ok.. So lets assume the investigation was tainted, and Farrell was coerced to continue with the charade, we need the testimony..
Two points cross my mind (this is assuming the investigation and Farrell are as bent as each other at this stage)
1) With such a spot light on the case nationwide, why did the invisible man not present himself to a Garda Station just to eliminate himself from further interest..?? I'm sure having an uncomfortable interview about his sordid double life, could be no more embarrassing than being caught with his pants down with Marie Farrell being made public across the RTE news at 6... How was he to know she wouldn't break, give his name up??
2) Farrell's Husband stayed loyal..? Realistically, could any marriage withstand that? Every person in the country was listening to his Wife meeting a mystery man and zipping around the coast line and having romantic walks on the beach at 4am in the morning.... Yeah right!! He already had form for violence, taking a knife to another fellow.. Doesn't strike me as the understanding, forgiving type of person...
I'm not a detective, nor do I have all the interview manuscripts, but from sitting in my armchair, I read it like this..
Marie Farrell was a fantasist, an ambulance chaser... Liked to be on the fringes of the latest drama. She inbedded herself into the investigation by making hoax calls to the Garda hotline.
Her lack of brain cells would be her downfall (in many incidences yet to unfold), her first brain fart was using her own household phone to contact the hotline again, this resulted in her 'capture' so to speak.. The Guards had already placed all their chips in her basket, and must have been horrified to find she was a total Loo Lah of the highest order..
But without Farrell the Guards had nothing. Hence the cooking of the books (or the statements in this case). I believe Farrell was threatened with severe punishment for wasting police time, and was probably made aware that she, her husband and family would be finished in Cork forever, and their name the laughing stock of Ireland...
Unless....
We know it was Bailey 100%. He needs to be locked away before he does it again, and he will do it again, and their blood will be on your hands forever.. Help us out, and we will look after you, your family will be safe.... Blah, blah, blah..
This theory works well with my two points...
1) No need for the invisible man to present himself, simply because he doesn't exist. Also, no need to waste Garda resources chasing shadows, this explains why they never pushed (too hard) to find this man / shadow. They knew he was just a figment of Marie Farrell's mind.
2) The Husband knew she never left the house that night.. She had five kids, where was she going?? Sounds like she was suffering a bit with the nerves, the hubby probably felt sorry for her.. No way did he stay with her if her own account was true.. He knew it was all BS.
Fast forward a few years from the murder... Mr & Mrs Farrell and their brood (expensive brood) have gone from modest market traders to owning a half million property, thanks to the assistance of the Guards.....
Marie became locked to the Gards, they had her bang to rights. When it got real, she had to protect her family...
In later years when it went bad, the Gards couldn't have a loose cannon walking around, they needed her to stay on side.. Hence the friendly word in the right ear to get them the dream house as hush hush reward.
Excuse the long post... I enjoy breaking down and dissecting each and every piece of this puzzle.. A rubiks cube would be easier.
What do you mean evidence? He existed, certainly wasn't a phantom. Many local people know about the confession, it's just impossible to prove at this stage.
Not draw attention of who?. She was dead at the side of the path
There is no evidence for the phantom garda and his deathbed confession either
It's almost amusing how on this thread so many people believe they have an idea of the kind of person that is capable of killing another person when time and again it's been proven that almost anybody is
That is true
It mustn't have been very urgent if she took time to lace those boots when a slipon rubber shoe, a cut off wellington type, is in the corner. Unless she was getting dressed but who puts boots on first and you couldn't get trousers or jeans on over them
I'm being serious. Obviously they knew. It possibly connected sophie with a garda. Perhaps that's why they didn't go after Alfie as a suspect.
The Guards already knew about plant growing in Alfie's land since they'd busted him, so try to be serious. It's almost amusing how on this thread so many people believe they have an idea of the kind of person that is capable of killing another person when time and again it's been proven that almost anybody is. Since nothing remotely like a credible suspect has ever been found for this crime, the most logical conclusion is that this was a dispute between neighbours that went too far. Manslaughter.
You don't just flat out arrest someone do you??
It's a matter of gathering evidence and having enough to be able to.
And by dig deeper I mean find out about Alfies drug dealing/growing and how that could be connected.
Except they didn't. Because that would mean looking in a direction they wanted to avoid.
So they should have dug deeper but not arrested Alfie and Shirley? How else do you dig deeper? Ian Bailey's arrest was cobbled together far too quickly, most probably because of what would have become inevitable; the arrest of the only two people who were in the immediate vicinity, who discovered the body and whose dna/fingerprints were very likely on external (internal?) surfaces of the house.
I think you mean grounds for *suspicion*. Agreed.
There were still no grounds for arrest tho.
Tbh the only certainty really is that Sophie was murdered, by her gate.
It's one of the rare certainties about this case in my opinion
Agreed. But we're all speculating, with certainty, we don't know not much in this case.
I hear ya, but from what we know about the crime scene eg an indent on the ground where her head was hit so many times, I find it impossible to think that was not where she was killed
Ians arrest was a disgrace too, I think we can agree on that. But there was no grounds to arrest Alfie either.
Question, yes. Arrest, no.
I imagine the Gards also looked at how him and Shirley reacted after the murder and found shock and upset, nothing abnormal.
Look i dont think Alfie is uninvolved, I've shared my thoughts multiple times on this, and they should certainly have dug deeper. I'm of the opinion that if Alfie knew more they probably knew this. He was likely complicit in the cover up wether he realised or not.
But the whole point of them targeting Ian was they found a good suspect and tried to make the evidence fit. They didn't explore other leads and it was a damn disgrace.
It would just be a speculation in case if the killer put her boots on and laced them and carried her out. However it's just another line of speculation nothing more. Suppose if she was killed inside the house, screams wouldn't have been heard by Alfie or Shirley, the killer would have to have carried her to where she was found, and have returned to the house and cleaned up the murder site, re-arranged everything so everything appeared to be in order. It's not impossible, I'd say. None of us know.
I would also suggest that Sophie was really killed where she was found, or nearly where she was found. At least there is a strong likelihood that it was that way. It's also possible that she was trying to climb over the gate and trying to flee, and was already injured leaving that blood on the gate, but if so, why didn't she rather try to open the gate. The gate would neither have been locked nor difficult to open, I'd suggest?
The more one thinks about the case the more questions and speculations are coming up.
Ian Bailey emphatically denied any involvement so what difference does denial make. There were plenty more grounds for arrest in Alfie's case than there were for Bailey. Motive for a start.
The Guards were able to find bs reasons to arrest Bailey. You had two people who said they approached the house after seeing a dead body that should instantly have been recognised as being the owner of the house. There's reason straight off as that doesn't sound credible. Not only would there have been no problem arresting them, there would have been a public acceptance of the logic. Bailey was arrested twice but never charged. What was Jules Thomas arrested for?
Giving a statement where all you have to say is I heard/saw nothing is very different from the kind of grilling Bailey got, which might have yielded something useful in Alfie's case. If people are innocent they'll get over it, won't they?
Why would it suggest she wasn't killed outside?? There's absolutely no evidence that it happened anywhere BUT outside.
It's clear that everything occurred at the gate. Apart from that faint blood smear on the door there's zero sign of violence elsewhere, or struggle. The house was undisturbed.
Jaysus that's all wrong, you can't arrest someone just because they happen to live closest to a crime scene. Reasonable cause to suspect that an arrestable offence had been committed by them is required. There was definitely a desire to hear what they had to say. Statements were taken from Alfie and Shirley.
It's just another speculative point from my side.
If she didn't lace up her boots herself than the killer did, which would also suggest that she wasn't killed outside, as well. Also, could the killer have considered the wellingtons instead of the boots as he would have left fewer traces on the wellingtons as well.
There are just too many unknown possibilities in this case, and with real DNA and real evidence missing speculations are rampant
Good point.
Wasn't there an unusual knot on one of the boots? Cant remember where I read that
Alfie emphatically denied even going near Sophies body as far as we know. I'm not saying it's impossible, but he'd have no reason to lie, if for example he touched her then tried the back door (why tho? If he knew it was sophie who had been murdered), because there would be a possibility of his dna etc on the body which could implicate him. I find this implausible.
It's also nonsense that they should have been arrested!! Gardai can't just arrest people for murder because they were neighbours. Like come on now.
They were both questioned several times I think, which is normal. Arrested tho?
*smh*
It's highly likely that Alfie left the blood on the door when checking for whatever reason, he might have touched the body but didn't want to say he had. That doesn't mean he had anything to do with the murder but it seems like everything he said was accepted without question. For all that Detective Dwyer says Bailey tried to point them in the direction of France, he very quickly came up with the idea of the monster in the night supported by the nonsense about Kealfadda bridge. Any half serious investigation would have come to a conclusion that there were only two people in the immediate vicinity so they would have to be arrested. The fact they weren't indicates there was no desire to hear what they had to say.
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